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> How did we let Europe do this to us? Blaming the EU for this feels pretty disingenuous. GDPR is definitely well-intentioned and in the interest of the consum

> How did we let Europe do this to us? Blaming the EU for this feels pretty disingenuous. GDPR is definitely well-intentioned and in the interest of the consumers, the horribly annoying popups you get everywhere are just a form of malicious compliance from companies who want to track you anyway and make opting out as annoying as possible. Note that it's perfectly fine to have a page without a cookie popup. HN doesn't have one, for example. It's just not in the interest of companies to forgo user tracking.

sneak 4y ago
Laws that allow malicious compliance are bad laws. Intentions should not be a factor in evaluating whether laws are good laws or not. GDPR is not a good law. It hasn't even put a dent in the problem, and we are worse off for having it.
- mindslight 4y ago
  Obtaining "consent" via nagwalls and other dark patterns doesn't seem like its actually legal per the GDPR. Rather the enforcement is just so slow moving that it appears that way. So your complaint seems akin to saying that the laws against physical assault are pointless, because you were attacked and the police didn't find your assailant.
  - sneak 4y ago
    GDPR has had a huge cost. If it doesn't yield any benefit because it's not being enforced, then it is a bad law, because it has costs without benefit, unlike the prohibition on physical assault, which is "free".
    - kwhitefoot 4y ago
      How is it free? London in Victorian and worse in earlier times was a much less safe place than London now and a lot of the credit goes to having an organized police force that takes action to find and apprehend those who commit assault and battery. That police force cost money to create and costs money continuously to maintain.
      - sneak 4y ago
        I didn't say police are free; I am not referring to enforcement. The assertion (by mindslight) is that GDPR is not adequately enforced anyway, so the comparison you make is somewhat apples to oranges. It costs society nothing to not punch people (complying with the laws against physical battery). It costs society a lot, however, in real economic terms, to comply with GDPR. Therefore, if GDPR is not being enforced, it is all cost for little/no benefit.
        mindslight 4y ago
        In this analogy, it actually does cost muggers quite a lot of revenue to not be able to punch people and take their wallets.
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      It's being enforced. The problem is that the "free market that knows better" has collectively decided that they will go against it. And the enforcers are expected to work with the companies before fining everyone. However, it was enough to hand out some serious fines, and sites started falling in line https://noyb.eu/en/where-did-all-reject-buttons-come https://noyb.eu/en/where-did-all-reject-buttons-come Funny how this works, right? And more fines are coming https://noyb.eu/en/breaking-meta-prohibited-use-personal-data-advertising https://noyb.eu/en/breaking-meta-prohibited-use-personal-dat...

sneak 4y ago

Laws that allow malicious compliance are bad laws. Intentions should not be a factor in evaluating whether laws are good laws or not. GDPR is not a good law. It hasn't even put a dent in the problem, and we are worse off for having it.

mindslight 4y ago
Obtaining "consent" via nagwalls and other dark patterns doesn't seem like its actually legal per the GDPR. Rather the enforcement is just so slow moving that it appears that way. So your complaint seems akin to saying that the laws against physical assault are pointless, because you were attacked and the police didn't find your assailant.
- sneak 4y ago
  GDPR has had a huge cost. If it doesn't yield any benefit because it's not being enforced, then it is a bad law, because it has costs without benefit, unlike the prohibition on physical assault, which is "free".
  - kwhitefoot 4y ago
    How is it free? London in Victorian and worse in earlier times was a much less safe place than London now and a lot of the credit goes to having an organized police force that takes action to find and apprehend those who commit assault and battery. That police force cost money to create and costs money continuously to maintain.
    - sneak 4y ago
      I didn't say police are free; I am not referring to enforcement. The assertion (by mindslight) is that GDPR is not adequately enforced anyway, so the comparison you make is somewhat apples to oranges. It costs society nothing to not punch people (complying with the laws against physical battery). It costs society a lot, however, in real economic terms, to comply with GDPR. Therefore, if GDPR is not being enforced, it is all cost for little/no benefit.
      - mindslight 4y ago
        In this analogy, it actually does cost muggers quite a lot of revenue to not be able to punch people and take their wallets.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    It's being enforced. The problem is that the "free market that knows better" has collectively decided that they will go against it. And the enforcers are expected to work with the companies before fining everyone. However, it was enough to hand out some serious fines, and sites started falling in line https://noyb.eu/en/where-did-all-reject-buttons-come https://noyb.eu/en/where-did-all-reject-buttons-come Funny how this works, right? And more fines are coming https://noyb.eu/en/breaking-meta-prohibited-use-personal-data-advertising https://noyb.eu/en/breaking-meta-prohibited-use-personal-dat...