4 ms·

Barbarism is certainly a factor in the Roman expansion into Germania, but if you look at how the Romans were able to colonize Gaul completely. I think originall

by vondur 4y ago

Barbarism is certainly a factor in the Roman expansion into Germania, but if you look at how the Romans were able to colonize Gaul completely. I think originally they thought they could follow the same playbook into both Germania and Britain. Britain was never full pacified and required a large occupation force to keep the province under control. After the defeat of Varus during the reign of Augustus, I think Roman leadership looked at the area using a cost/benefit analysis and decided it wasn't worth the amount of money that would be needed to fully pacifiy the region. The Romans should have pulled out of Britain after Claudius, the invasion was a vanity project and had no real value as a province.

btilly 4y ago
"Pacified" is a bloodless word to hide a bloody reality. According to Julius Caesar's own figures, when he conquered Gaul he killed roughly a third, enslaved a third, and left the last third under Roman rule. Thus did the future dictator create the power base with which he overthrew the Republic. (Though it took his nephew Octavian, better known as Augustus, to make that stick.) Even in modern times, autocrats seek to glorify their power with titles that derive from his name. Titles like "king", "kaiser" and "tsar". Calgacus, as quoted by Tacitus, purportedly said of the Roman Empire, "They make a desert, and call it peace." The authenticity of the quote is questioned, but the description is historical fact. And so I prefer calling a spade a spade, and replacing "pacification" with the more accurate", "conquest, genocide and oppression".
dalbasal 4y ago
Idk... Lots of conquests were hard, but time did them. Then they put down rebellions as necessary. I think the difference was that there was no way for time to "win" as they we used to. No palace to install governors in. No temple to place Roman statues in. How do twin? What do you win when you win? Rome wasn't after a tax base or plantations for cash crops. They were after a tax base. Most of their empire consisted of territories that had all these things for yonks. They had been conquered by many empires and knew the drill. Britannia and Germania did not.
- mjcohen 4y ago
  This is not written in English. Maybe AI?
  - DemocracyFTW2 4y ago
    > Rome wasn't after a tax base [...]. They were after a tax base. looks like a perfectly cromulent argumentation to me.
    - dalbasal 4y ago
      alcohol.

by vondur 4y ago

btilly 4y ago

"Pacified" is a bloodless word to hide a bloody reality. According to Julius Caesar's own figures, when he conquered Gaul he killed roughly a third, enslaved a third, and left the last third under Roman rule. Thus did the future dictator create the power base with which he overthrew the Republic. (Though it took his nephew Octavian, better known as Augustus, to make that stick.) Even in modern times, autocrats seek to glorify their power with titles that derive from his name. Titles like "king", "kaiser" and "tsar". Calgacus, as quoted by Tacitus, purportedly said of the Roman Empire, "They make a desert, and call it peace." The authenticity of the quote is questioned, but the description is historical fact. And so I prefer calling a spade a spade, and replacing "pacification" with the more accurate", "conquest, genocide and oppression".

dalbasal 4y ago

Idk... Lots of conquests were hard, but time did them. Then they put down rebellions as necessary. I think the difference was that there was no way for time to "win" as they we used to. No palace to install governors in. No temple to place Roman statues in. How do twin? What do you win when you win? Rome wasn't after a tax base or plantations for cash crops. They were after a tax base. Most of their empire consisted of territories that had all these things for yonks. They had been conquered by many empires and knew the drill. Britannia and Germania did not.

mjcohen 4y ago
This is not written in English. Maybe AI?
- DemocracyFTW2 4y ago
  > Rome wasn't after a tax base [...]. They were after a tax base. looks like a perfectly cromulent argumentation to me.
  - dalbasal 4y ago
    alcohol.