4 ms·

I think you and the op are wrong (or maybe right?) for different reasons. Positioning it as a new category with less oil was right initially to get the thing o

I think you and the op are wrong (or maybe right?) for different reasons. Positioning it as a new category with less oil was right initially to get the thing off the ground but now it's maturing into a broader market with an installed base and that installed base has produced a ton of content, most of which is not for use as a less oil fryer, it's for use as a quick oven for when you aren't making enough of a dish for a family bigger than 4 people/aren't making something that will have leftovers for days. The next wave of people buying these things are not going to be fryer junkies looking to cut oil, it's going to be people like me that looked at it and realized instead of waiting 20-40 minutes for my oven to heat up I could throw enough food in the air fryer to finish a dish in 7-12 minutes, which changes the dynamic of how I live my life culinarily for the better by a large margin. With the airfryer I can plan meal timing way less, have less pressure to be in the kitchen earlier, have flexibility to cook something like a roast in the oven on lower heat while polishing off fancy veg or multiple fancy veg (because the run time to cook is so low) in the air fryer, plus I save a lot on cleaning at the end because there aren't multiple big dishes to wash.

AnotherGoodName 4y ago
The only issue is that people may get misled into buying an oven sized air fryer which defeats the whole point since their advantage is that they are a much smaller oven. If they were called 'tiny oven' people probably catch on a bit better. I have an air fryer which is literally a double walled cooking pot with a fan forced heater bolted on top. It's amazingly fast to cook and trivial to clean since it is small and fits in the sink but i fear many people hearing how good 'air fryers' are might do something dumb and buy an full size fan forced oven that's badged as an 'air fryer' which defeats the whole point.
- AmVess 4y ago
  The whole point of them is that they cook quickly, and without oil. Small units are good for 1-2 people, but it won't prepare enough for a family of more than 3, thus the existence of larger units.
  - AnotherGoodName 4y ago
    I think there's a point where you need to accept that you should use a fan forced oven. Air Fryers are literally a small fan forced oven in terms of tech. The fast heating is due to the size. A fan forced oven is the same tech but slower due to being larger. Nothing more. So if you are buying a large air fryer that's essentially a fan forced oven i have to ask "why not use the oven?".
    - sgc 4y ago
      I don't know that is true. I have always presumed the air circulation in the air fryer is far higher than that in my convection oven, since when they are both preheated, the cooking times are certainly much lower in the air fryer. Not only that, but some ovens have a specific air fryer mode now, indicating it is not just a typical convection oven. Should every oven maker add an air fryer mode to their convection oven, as some have started doing? Of course!
      - AnotherGoodName 4y ago
        The tech is pretty hard to argue against. I mean you can literally look at what it contains and it's a heating element and a fan. Nothing more. You can Google this for yourself if you don't believe me but you'll find a lot of people patiently explaining this exact same point. There may be a case that there's better circulation in most air fryers vs most fan forced ovens. In fact that's true in my case as my large oven and my air fryer have fans the same size (so more relative circulation in the smaller air fryer). But they are the same tech. The difference in relative fan size probably has some effect but it's not a rule, it's really just a case of how big the fan in the device is and you may have air fryers with smaller or larger relative fan sizes and ovens with smaller or larger relative fan sizes. If you're wondering why ovens now have 'air fryer' mode that's because marketing. I suspect it spins the fan a little faster.
        nightski 4y ago
        I don't know, I have heard that a lot of the newer ovens with an air fryer mode don't work very well at all. I wonder what is different.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > If they were called 'tiny oven' people probably catch on a bit better. Tiny countertop (often convection) ovens (including, but not limited to, ones marketed as "toaster ovens") are very common, but a lot of them are under powered for their size compared to those markets as "air fryers", as well as having other design differences. And they existed long before air fryers, which needed to differentiate themselves from them. > The only issue is that people may get misled into buying an oven sized air fryer which defeats the whole point since their advantage is that they are a much smaller oven. Actually, I think it’s probably going to be pretty common for people to have multiple convection ovens / air fryers and use them for different purposes. The “whole point” of an air fryer is not the size: the convection oven + cooking basket setup has fairly great utility at all sizes. Yes, an oven with a powerful heating element relative to size is going to have the added advantage of coming up to speed faster, which has some additional utility. Yes, the particular design of the cooking pot + top fan you describe (or the InstantPot models with air-fryer lids that interchangeable with the pressure cooker lids) have some unique utility (“pressure cook & crisp” for certain recipes). But ones the size of a typical microwave (or combined with a microwave, as some are now) or a typical full-size range oven also have unique uses that smaller ones lack.
- darkerside 4y ago
  Technically accurate doesn't mean good marketing, and in fact oftentimes quite the opposite
hellotomyrars 4y ago
I agree but the next wave as you’ve described has already happened a year or so ago. The majority of people I know have an air fryer at this point and that includes, of all things, a lot of senior citizens which is a disproportionate amount of my social circle due to my profession. These things are out there in a big way. Lots of frozen products already have air fryer directions on them specifically. I think it’s already the open secret that all they really are is a small convection oven.
Avalaxy 4y ago
20 to 40 minutes for your oven to heat up? The hell? Mine is heated to 180 degrees in 5 minutes.
- yurishimo 4y ago
  Americans have giant ovens. It's one of the things I miss after moving to Europe. The downside to a large oven is the time/space commitment, but it is super convenient. Convection is also not common in the US. At least where I am in the Netherlands, shopping for a new "oven" almost guarantees it will be some sort of combo microwave/convection thing. Then it's also common to have a countertop airfryer as well.
  - IIsi50MHz 4y ago
    From Japanese people, I have the impression that they've largely given up on microwaves and toaster ovens, as inconvenient and space-wasting. Having an oven in a Japanese home is extremely rare, being regarded as professional bakery equipment. Instead, they have a "deshi rehhhn-ji", which literally translates to "electric range". This will confuse people for whom "the range" is the thing you can place multiple pots and pans on to cook simultaneousely. But a denshi rehhhn-ji actually is more like a combination toaster oven plus microwave with a single shared compartment, designed to use infrared and microwave power simultaneously. Attempts to market these in USA over 14 years ago failed, seemingly due to high prices and consumers' preconception that ovens, toasters, and microwaves are fundamentally separate devices. However, I've recently seen at a Target store in USA three different combination devices that may be similar, from different companies. Their marketing at that store was like "combination air fryer and microwave!" and "combination microwave and broiler!". deshi reenji …but that the double 'e' is not an English "long e" but rather more like an English "short e" of double length.
    - IIsi50MHz 4y ago
      Meta: I now see that primarily accessing HN from an Android client[1] has obscured from me that doing (cons thing asterisk) in a comment, and then at the end of the comment doing (cons asterisk description-or-explanation) doesn't do what I thought it does, because the actual site suppresses the asterisks and uses them as delimiters for italics. [1] Materialistic, on F-Droid.
boring_twenties 4y ago
> it's for use as a quick oven for when you aren't making enough of a dish for a family bigger than 4 people/aren't making something that will have leftovers for days. How's this different from a classic toaster oven? Serious question, I've never used or even seen an air fryer, but I have been using toaster ovens to bake single servings of salmon for over 2 decades.
- xnx 4y ago
  A lot (most?) classic toaster ovens don't have a circulating fan built in. The fan makes a big difference in cook time and crispyness.

AnotherGoodName 4y ago

The only issue is that people may get misled into buying an oven sized air fryer which defeats the whole point since their advantage is that they are a much smaller oven. If they were called 'tiny oven' people probably catch on a bit better. I have an air fryer which is literally a double walled cooking pot with a fan forced heater bolted on top. It's amazingly fast to cook and trivial to clean since it is small and fits in the sink but i fear many people hearing how good 'air fryers' are might do something dumb and buy an full size fan forced oven that's badged as an 'air fryer' which defeats the whole point.

AmVess 4y ago
The whole point of them is that they cook quickly, and without oil. Small units are good for 1-2 people, but it won't prepare enough for a family of more than 3, thus the existence of larger units.
- AnotherGoodName 4y ago
  I think there's a point where you need to accept that you should use a fan forced oven. Air Fryers are literally a small fan forced oven in terms of tech. The fast heating is due to the size. A fan forced oven is the same tech but slower due to being larger. Nothing more. So if you are buying a large air fryer that's essentially a fan forced oven i have to ask "why not use the oven?".
  - sgc 4y ago
    I don't know that is true. I have always presumed the air circulation in the air fryer is far higher than that in my convection oven, since when they are both preheated, the cooking times are certainly much lower in the air fryer. Not only that, but some ovens have a specific air fryer mode now, indicating it is not just a typical convection oven. Should every oven maker add an air fryer mode to their convection oven, as some have started doing? Of course!
    - AnotherGoodName 4y ago
      The tech is pretty hard to argue against. I mean you can literally look at what it contains and it's a heating element and a fan. Nothing more. You can Google this for yourself if you don't believe me but you'll find a lot of people patiently explaining this exact same point. There may be a case that there's better circulation in most air fryers vs most fan forced ovens. In fact that's true in my case as my large oven and my air fryer have fans the same size (so more relative circulation in the smaller air fryer). But they are the same tech. The difference in relative fan size probably has some effect but it's not a rule, it's really just a case of how big the fan in the device is and you may have air fryers with smaller or larger relative fan sizes and ovens with smaller or larger relative fan sizes. If you're wondering why ovens now have 'air fryer' mode that's because marketing. I suspect it spins the fan a little faster.
      - nightski 4y ago
        I don't know, I have heard that a lot of the newer ovens with an air fryer mode don't work very well at all. I wonder what is different.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> If they were called 'tiny oven' people probably catch on a bit better. Tiny countertop (often convection) ovens (including, but not limited to, ones marketed as "toaster ovens") are very common, but a lot of them are under powered for their size compared to those markets as "air fryers", as well as having other design differences. And they existed long before air fryers, which needed to differentiate themselves from them. > The only issue is that people may get misled into buying an oven sized air fryer which defeats the whole point since their advantage is that they are a much smaller oven. Actually, I think it’s probably going to be pretty common for people to have multiple convection ovens / air fryers and use them for different purposes. The “whole point” of an air fryer is not the size: the convection oven + cooking basket setup has fairly great utility at all sizes. Yes, an oven with a powerful heating element relative to size is going to have the added advantage of coming up to speed faster, which has some additional utility. Yes, the particular design of the cooking pot + top fan you describe (or the InstantPot models with air-fryer lids that interchangeable with the pressure cooker lids) have some unique utility (“pressure cook & crisp” for certain recipes). But ones the size of a typical microwave (or combined with a microwave, as some are now) or a typical full-size range oven also have unique uses that smaller ones lack.
darkerside 4y ago
Technically accurate doesn't mean good marketing, and in fact oftentimes quite the opposite

hellotomyrars 4y ago

I agree but the next wave as you’ve described has already happened a year or so ago. The majority of people I know have an air fryer at this point and that includes, of all things, a lot of senior citizens which is a disproportionate amount of my social circle due to my profession. These things are out there in a big way. Lots of frozen products already have air fryer directions on them specifically. I think it’s already the open secret that all they really are is a small convection oven.

Avalaxy 4y ago

20 to 40 minutes for your oven to heat up? The hell? Mine is heated to 180 degrees in 5 minutes.

yurishimo 4y ago
Americans have giant ovens. It's one of the things I miss after moving to Europe. The downside to a large oven is the time/space commitment, but it is super convenient. Convection is also not common in the US. At least where I am in the Netherlands, shopping for a new "oven" almost guarantees it will be some sort of combo microwave/convection thing. Then it's also common to have a countertop airfryer as well.
- IIsi50MHz 4y ago
  From Japanese people, I have the impression that they've largely given up on microwaves and toaster ovens, as inconvenient and space-wasting. Having an oven in a Japanese home is extremely rare, being regarded as professional bakery equipment. Instead, they have a "deshi rehhhn-ji", which literally translates to "electric range". This will confuse people for whom "the range" is the thing you can place multiple pots and pans on to cook simultaneousely. But a denshi rehhhn-ji actually is more like a combination toaster oven plus microwave with a single shared compartment, designed to use infrared and microwave power simultaneously. Attempts to market these in USA over 14 years ago failed, seemingly due to high prices and consumers' preconception that ovens, toasters, and microwaves are fundamentally separate devices. However, I've recently seen at a Target store in USA three different combination devices that may be similar, from different companies. Their marketing at that store was like "combination air fryer and microwave!" and "combination microwave and broiler!". deshi reenji …but that the double 'e' is not an English "long e" but rather more like an English "short e" of double length.
  - IIsi50MHz 4y ago
    Meta: I now see that primarily accessing HN from an Android client[1] has obscured from me that doing (cons thing asterisk) in a comment, and then at the end of the comment doing (cons asterisk description-or-explanation) doesn't do what I thought it does, because the actual site suppresses the asterisks and uses them as delimiters for italics. [1] Materialistic, on F-Droid.

boring_twenties 4y ago

> it's for use as a quick oven for when you aren't making enough of a dish for a family bigger than 4 people/aren't making something that will have leftovers for days. How's this different from a classic toaster oven? Serious question, I've never used or even seen an air fryer, but I have been using toaster ovens to bake single servings of salmon for over 2 decades.

xnx 4y ago
A lot (most?) classic toaster ovens don't have a circulating fan built in. The fan makes a big difference in cook time and crispyness.