7 ms·

This stupid argument gets thrown around so much it's become really annoying, what really matters in art is the process, not the result; intent, not content. A

This stupid argument gets thrown around so much it's become really annoying, what really matters in art is the process, not the result; intent, not content. A model randomly remixing human works to reach an approximated result that matches a few words inserted by a human cannot be put on the same plane as a human expressing a concept or inner feelings using knowledge he acquired by looking at other works. When I look at art (be it paintings, stories, animation, or any other medium) I always think about the people behind it, what stories are they trying to tell, what life lessons and ideals are they trying to bring across the screen. A text prompt absolutely cannot convey the same amount of meaning as a work of art that takes actual time to make and refine, and however amazing the output may look, it is inherently meaningless, with no human intent behind it to make something great and original.

MrNeon 4y ago
> what really matters in art is the process You don't get to define what is art. Art can and does move people who have absolutely no idea of what the process to create it was. You have your way to experience art, it isn't the only way. In fact you have a limited ability to learn about the process, how much of it are you making up in your head?
- tines 4y ago
  When the flush of a newborn sun fell first on Eden's green and gold, Our father Adam sat under the Tree and scratched with a stick in the mold; And the first rude sketch that the world had seen was joy to his mighty heart, Till the Devil whispered behind the leaves: "It's pretty, but is it Art?" - Rudyard Kipling
  - drdaeman 4y ago
    "Hey, anything's art if you do it in a black sweater". - Mr. Wiggles This said, according to the renown authorities on the matter, it's definitely about the process. :-)
- danogentili 4y ago
  I can very well get to define what art means to me. Process is actually very easy to infer if the art is made by a human, since the emotions that are being conveyed by the humans behind the screen are displayed directly on screen. I don't deny that I might get moved by a piece of AI art, but even so, my first thought goes to what human art was used to generated this specific piece that inspired this emotion. An AI can't feel emotions, but the humans that made the art powering its model can, and that's the only way AI art can make you feel anything, when it isn't just a garbled mess. As usual, it's always about the humans behind the screen, not about what's on the screen itself; and the people working on these models fail to understand that that's what people are really looking for: human interaction via creativity, not an instant "product" to be displayed on screen; and that's why AI art will always be relegated to the niche of 4channers generating AI porn and enthusiast devs generating nightmare fuel logos for their projects. For once, I would absolutely refuse to consume any AI-generated content, and I'm happy in the knowledge that I'm not the only one taking this stance. I also trust that legislation will eventually catch up with the insult to human creativity that are AI art models.
  - visarga 4y ago
    > I don't deny that I might get moved by a piece of AI art, but even so, my first thought goes to what human art was used to generated this specific piece that inspired this emotion. Yes, exactly, behind AI art there are countless human artists and their experiences. You should not dismiss AI so easily. What it offers you is a new way to see your favourite artists, to interact with their works, to continue dreaming the same dream, and add your own story to their own. AI art is a deeper way to engage with art than simply viewing. For the first time we can ask questions, we can explore vast landscapes of style and content. Only imagination has similar characteristics - goal directedness, freedom of movement, extreme creativity, one-time-use - imagine and throw away most of your ideas, a space of privacy and freedom - assuming you run your own models, AI art is more private than using the internet.
    - danogentili 4y ago
      Sure, it's a fun toy to play with, I don't deny it. Like a kaleidoscope, it can be fun to recognize familiar patterns and beautiful colors, but it's nothing more than that: a toy. What I look for in art is intent and human passion; for me, the excitement of suddenly getting a nice number out of a PRNG or a cool story out of GPT is a very different from experiencing a story passionately crafted by a human. When I read an amazing story like the Iron Widow, I feel respect towards the skills of the author, excitement for her future plans for the sequel; I follow the author on twitter and maybe interact a bit, because I appreciate what that human made me feel. I can't do the same for a GPT story, because even if it was generated from multiple human stories, there is no actual human intent behind it; no one to thank, and no one to blame in case of messups: it feels like an empty shell.
yieldcrv 4y ago
> what really matters in art is the process, not the result; intent, not content in the fine art world, for now, that's been whats driven value. and when I am in that world to move cash around reliably, thats what I consider and I almost don't consider the aesthetics at all. outside of the fine art world, there basically is no art market and it is purely aesthetics. the process and intent is irrelevant, only the result and content. I just want cool looking things. Since it is not possible for you to invalidate my view, then its also what really matter.
- danogentili 4y ago
  Sure, different people like different things. Netflix wastes the billions it earns on the really good productions like Arcane into hundreds of garbage statistics-driven shows canceled after the first seasons, because some people like watching meaningful, intent-filled stories made by passionate humans, and others just want anything to play in the background while doing other stuff. And this is precisely why AI art will not be the end of human creativity: humans will keep creating, and other people will like watching the passionate work of other humans, not randomly generated garbage.
  - vkou 4y ago
    > And this is precisely why AI art will not be the end of human creativity: humans will keep creating, and other people will like watching the passionate work of other humans, not randomly generated garbage. The problem is going to be if you hollow out the artist ecosystem. If all low-skill SWE work were to be done by AI, and the only humans in the loop were the ones at the top of their field (The twenty-years-of-experience folks), there would be nobody to replace them after they retire. Because you aren't going to get a lot of new twenty-years-of-experience people, when there are no jobs for zero-to-nineteen-years-of-experience people. If you're interested in how this has worked out in the physical product space, you can always look at the American rust belt. As it turns out, when you offshore all the low-level, low-margin, low-skill work, you lose a lot of the high-level expertise in the industry.
    - 4y ago
visarga 4y ago
> what really matters in art is the process AI art has its own process. It can be quite therapeutic.

MrNeon 4y ago

> what really matters in art is the process You don't get to define what is art. Art can and does move people who have absolutely no idea of what the process to create it was. You have your way to experience art, it isn't the only way. In fact you have a limited ability to learn about the process, how much of it are you making up in your head?

tines 4y ago
When the flush of a newborn sun fell first on Eden's green and gold, Our father Adam sat under the Tree and scratched with a stick in the mold; And the first rude sketch that the world had seen was joy to his mighty heart, Till the Devil whispered behind the leaves: "It's pretty, but is it Art?" - Rudyard Kipling
- drdaeman 4y ago
  "Hey, anything's art if you do it in a black sweater". - Mr. Wiggles This said, according to the renown authorities on the matter, it's definitely about the process. :-)
danogentili 4y ago
I can very well get to define what art means to me. Process is actually very easy to infer if the art is made by a human, since the emotions that are being conveyed by the humans behind the screen are displayed directly on screen. I don't deny that I might get moved by a piece of AI art, but even so, my first thought goes to what human art was used to generated this specific piece that inspired this emotion. An AI can't feel emotions, but the humans that made the art powering its model can, and that's the only way AI art can make you feel anything, when it isn't just a garbled mess. As usual, it's always about the humans behind the screen, not about what's on the screen itself; and the people working on these models fail to understand that that's what people are really looking for: human interaction via creativity, not an instant "product" to be displayed on screen; and that's why AI art will always be relegated to the niche of 4channers generating AI porn and enthusiast devs generating nightmare fuel logos for their projects. For once, I would absolutely refuse to consume any AI-generated content, and I'm happy in the knowledge that I'm not the only one taking this stance. I also trust that legislation will eventually catch up with the insult to human creativity that are AI art models.
- visarga 4y ago
  > I don't deny that I might get moved by a piece of AI art, but even so, my first thought goes to what human art was used to generated this specific piece that inspired this emotion. Yes, exactly, behind AI art there are countless human artists and their experiences. You should not dismiss AI so easily. What it offers you is a new way to see your favourite artists, to interact with their works, to continue dreaming the same dream, and add your own story to their own. AI art is a deeper way to engage with art than simply viewing. For the first time we can ask questions, we can explore vast landscapes of style and content. Only imagination has similar characteristics - goal directedness, freedom of movement, extreme creativity, one-time-use - imagine and throw away most of your ideas, a space of privacy and freedom - assuming you run your own models, AI art is more private than using the internet.
  - danogentili 4y ago
    Sure, it's a fun toy to play with, I don't deny it. Like a kaleidoscope, it can be fun to recognize familiar patterns and beautiful colors, but it's nothing more than that: a toy. What I look for in art is intent and human passion; for me, the excitement of suddenly getting a nice number out of a PRNG or a cool story out of GPT is a very different from experiencing a story passionately crafted by a human. When I read an amazing story like the Iron Widow, I feel respect towards the skills of the author, excitement for her future plans for the sequel; I follow the author on twitter and maybe interact a bit, because I appreciate what that human made me feel. I can't do the same for a GPT story, because even if it was generated from multiple human stories, there is no actual human intent behind it; no one to thank, and no one to blame in case of messups: it feels like an empty shell.

yieldcrv 4y ago

> what really matters in art is the process, not the result; intent, not content in the fine art world, for now, that's been whats driven value. and when I am in that world to move cash around reliably, thats what I consider and I almost don't consider the aesthetics at all. outside of the fine art world, there basically is no art market and it is purely aesthetics. the process and intent is irrelevant, only the result and content. I just want cool looking things. Since it is not possible for you to invalidate my view, then its also what really matter.

danogentili 4y ago
Sure, different people like different things. Netflix wastes the billions it earns on the really good productions like Arcane into hundreds of garbage statistics-driven shows canceled after the first seasons, because some people like watching meaningful, intent-filled stories made by passionate humans, and others just want anything to play in the background while doing other stuff. And this is precisely why AI art will not be the end of human creativity: humans will keep creating, and other people will like watching the passionate work of other humans, not randomly generated garbage.
- vkou 4y ago
  > And this is precisely why AI art will not be the end of human creativity: humans will keep creating, and other people will like watching the passionate work of other humans, not randomly generated garbage. The problem is going to be if you hollow out the artist ecosystem. If all low-skill SWE work were to be done by AI, and the only humans in the loop were the ones at the top of their field (The twenty-years-of-experience folks), there would be nobody to replace them after they retire. Because you aren't going to get a lot of new twenty-years-of-experience people, when there are no jobs for zero-to-nineteen-years-of-experience people. If you're interested in how this has worked out in the physical product space, you can always look at the American rust belt. As it turns out, when you offshore all the low-level, low-margin, low-skill work, you lose a lot of the high-level expertise in the industry.
  - 4y ago

visarga 4y ago

> what really matters in art is the process AI art has its own process. It can be quite therapeutic.