5 ms·
More generally: nothing can be a right if it must be paid for by other people; rights can only be proscriptive, never prescriptive.
by duncan_bayne 15y ago
More generally: nothing can be a right if it must be paid for by other people; rights can only be proscriptive, never prescriptive.
- wmf 15y agoWhen people talk about a right to Internet access, they generally mean a negative right: you can't be barred from using the Internet (as in the oppressive countries Cerf mentions), but you still have to pay for it. This is similar to the right of free press, which belongs only to those who own one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights
- mc32 15y ago>This is similar to the right of free press, which belongs only to those who own one. Didn't it also speak to being able to hire a press (i.e. get someone to run a print for you) to avoid something like "thou shalt not print any materials concerning x, y or z on behalf of a, b or c."
- aantthony 15y agoThe right to keep and bear arms is also similar. That right doesn't entitle you to free guns.
- mc32 15y agoI'm curious about one thing. If it's a human right in France, it would appear to be an alienable right, given some conditions, such as the "three strikes" (HADOPI) law[1], which seeks to address copyright infringement, allows for suspension of internet access for violations. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI_law
- nextparadigms 15y agoI don't think it's a human right in France. The UN decided it is a human right, and many countries signed it, but Sarkozy refused to do it as far as I know. So HADOPI can carry on for now, at least until Sarkozy loses the election.
- philwelch 15y agoThat's not how rights work. For instance, there's an inalienable right not to be locked in a cage, but if you violate other people's rights not to have their car radios stolen, you can still be locked in a cage.
- catwell 15y agoExactly. The first version of the HADOPI law was censored by the French Constitutional Council in 2009 on the ground that only a judge could restrict a fundamental right. This is the case with the current version of the law.
- mhartl 15y agoAll rights have to be paid for by other people—if you believe that the notion of "right" is well-posed, that is—which I don't.
- tikhonj 15y agoMy understanding of a "right" is not something that must be provided--rather, it's something that cannot be proscribed. A right is passive; all that's needed to provide one is inaction. You don't have to pay anything to not stop me from speaking. Something that has to be provided is probably better called an "entitlement".
- nextparadigms 15y agoIsn't persecution a form of disregarding your rights? Isn't removing Internet access a form of persecution?
- Jun8 15y agoSo, the poor don't have a right to education because they cannot pay? What about food aid to Africa? I think the concept of human right is independent of the cost or who pays for it, at least in principle.
- tsotha 15y agoDepends on where you're from. There are some countries where that's true and some where it is not.
- JabavuAdams 15y agoWell, aren't human rights meant to be intrinsic to humans, not dependent on the legal jurisdiction like civil rights? One can argue whether this is realistic, or not, but in principle human rights are distinct from civil rights.
- tsotha 15y agoAh, well, if you're arguing from that perspective then no, these things are not human rights.
- icebraining 15y agoaren't human rights meant to be intrinsic to humans Those are Natural rights, also called "nonsense upon stilts" by Jeremy Bentham and "imaginary, like the Bogeyman" by George Carlin ;)
- Joakal 15y agoIIRC for USA: Is access to a lawyer in court not a right because it is paid for by the court?
- dewitt 15y agoThe sixth amendment guarantees the right to "a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury" and the "assistance of counsel." The state must provide for the defendant in order to ensure those rights are met. Same as the state must incur the cost of sitting an impartial jury, presenting witnesses against him, etc.
- JabavuAdams 15y agoThis is not a given, although it is a defensible position. Are you confusing human rights with civil rights?
- icebraining 15y agoWell, that's like, your opinion, man. Rights are an abstract concept, and people have different definitions of them. For example, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights include such as: Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. And Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. These are definitively rights that have to be paid for by other people, and yet many consider them perfectly valid.