4 ms·

That's what i don't get with linux...having all drivers inside the kernel is madness, no wait...it's pure stupidity. No other Universal OS makes that...crash my

by nix23 4y ago

That's what i don't get with linux...having all drivers inside the kernel is madness, no wait...it's pure stupidity. No other Universal OS makes that...crash my system with a USB-Controller...that's some Windows 98 reliability(-issues) right there.

capableweb 4y ago
I don't think Linux is exclusive here, there are plenty of examples of both macOS and Windows also crashing when plugging in various accessories. - https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/678644?page=5 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/678644?page=5 - " Big Sur panic when connect/disconnect usb-c dock " - https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-air-crashing-when-plugging-a-usb-device.2243724/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-air-crashing-wh... - "MacBook air crashing when plugging a USB device" - https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-freezing-when-i-plug-in-a-usb-device/d60783d6-29e4-4a6a-bc82-ea37f362b82d https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/window... - " Windows freezing when I plug in a USB device" Try searching for "$operating-system crash when connect usb" for various OSes and distributions and you'll see it's a problem everywhere, not just Linux.
- anthk 4y ago
  I remember OpenBSD panicking over some USB hubs a few releases ago. USB is hell.
- thrdbndndn 4y ago
  Yeah, crashes from hardware driver are fairly common on Windows. And without any surprise, USB is the most common one (I'd say network devices (Ethernet, Wifi, or BT) are a close second).
anthk 4y ago
Linux uses modules, some other BSD not. A faulty USB driver (specially storage related ones) can panic your BSD kernel with ease. With Linux you could blacklist lots of modules since forever easily, forbidding to load them. Try that with Windows or MacOS. Go buy some cheap WiFi adapter. Noth Atheros. Ralink, better. Often your favourite OS will panic/BSOD too.
- nix23 4y ago
  Ah nice do we try to find excuses that monolithic kernel's are not so bad at all right? And it's totally ok that those (any) "high-quality" driver can crash the system? >Linux uses modules, some other BSD not. Has nothing todo with modules, if it's loaded it's in kernel-space. Not others...OpenBSD is the ONE. BTW: For those butt-hurt ones (that i blatantly attacked poor linux), it not just about linux but should we no create operating-systems where this is not possible? Just asking...
  - svorakang 4y ago
    What you're asking for is a microkernel os, or at least a generic kernel shim to interface a user space driver. Example of microkernel: QNX. Example of userspace driver: fuse. I'm not familiar with the architecture of OpenBSD, does it run it's drivers in userspace?
    - nix23 4y ago
      >I'm not familiar with the architecture of OpenBSD, does it run it's drivers in userspace? No it's the BSD without modules. >Example of microkernel: QNX. Yes and minix, hurd and TrueUnix64 just some other examples.
  - anthk 4y ago
    Fun you say this, but I panicked a few OpenBSD releases before by just using a USB hub and some SD card adapters. And I remind you I helped with some OpenBSD ports such as Mednafen, so I am not saying this as a bluff. The mail list is clear.
    - nix23 4y ago
      I am not talking about BSD vs Linux, i am talking about systems where no shitty driver can bring down the system....i say that as a FreeBSD user btw.
      - anthk 4y ago

by nix23 4y ago

capableweb 4y ago

I don't think Linux is exclusive here, there are plenty of examples of both macOS and Windows also crashing when plugging in various accessories. - https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/678644?page=5 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/678644?page=5 - " Big Sur panic when connect/disconnect usb-c dock " - https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-air-crashing-when-plugging-a-usb-device.2243724/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-air-crashing-wh... - "MacBook air crashing when plugging a USB device" - https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-freezing-when-i-plug-in-a-usb-device/d60783d6-29e4-4a6a-bc82-ea37f362b82d https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/window... - " Windows freezing when I plug in a USB device" Try searching for "$operating-system crash when connect usb" for various OSes and distributions and you'll see it's a problem everywhere, not just Linux.

anthk 4y ago
I remember OpenBSD panicking over some USB hubs a few releases ago. USB is hell.
thrdbndndn 4y ago
Yeah, crashes from hardware driver are fairly common on Windows. And without any surprise, USB is the most common one (I'd say network devices (Ethernet, Wifi, or BT) are a close second).

anthk 4y ago

Linux uses modules, some other BSD not. A faulty USB driver (specially storage related ones) can panic your BSD kernel with ease. With Linux you could blacklist lots of modules since forever easily, forbidding to load them. Try that with Windows or MacOS. Go buy some cheap WiFi adapter. Noth Atheros. Ralink, better. Often your favourite OS will panic/BSOD too.

nix23 4y ago
Ah nice do we try to find excuses that monolithic kernel's are not so bad at all right? And it's totally ok that those (any) "high-quality" driver can crash the system? >Linux uses modules, some other BSD not. Has nothing todo with modules, if it's loaded it's in kernel-space. Not others...OpenBSD is the ONE. BTW: For those butt-hurt ones (that i blatantly attacked poor linux), it not just about linux but should we no create operating-systems where this is not possible? Just asking...
- svorakang 4y ago
  What you're asking for is a microkernel os, or at least a generic kernel shim to interface a user space driver. Example of microkernel: QNX. Example of userspace driver: fuse. I'm not familiar with the architecture of OpenBSD, does it run it's drivers in userspace?
  - nix23 4y ago
    >I'm not familiar with the architecture of OpenBSD, does it run it's drivers in userspace? No it's the BSD without modules. >Example of microkernel: QNX. Yes and minix, hurd and TrueUnix64 just some other examples.
- anthk 4y ago
  Fun you say this, but I panicked a few OpenBSD releases before by just using a USB hub and some SD card adapters. And I remind you I helped with some OpenBSD ports such as Mednafen, so I am not saying this as a bluff. The mail list is clear.
  - nix23 4y ago
    I am not talking about BSD vs Linux, i am talking about systems where no shitty driver can bring down the system....i say that as a FreeBSD user btw.
    - anthk 4y ago