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Every armed conflict is a threat to civilian lives. Had the Russians not invaded Ukraine in 2014, not long after failing to install a pro-Russian administration

by petre 4y ago

Every armed conflict is a threat to civilian lives. Had the Russians not invaded Ukraine in 2014, not long after failing to install a pro-Russian administration in Kiev, there would have been no armed conflict. Yes, minorities in Ukraine had rights and protections left over from the Soviet era that were revoked after the 2014 invasion. The radicalization of Ukrainian society happened precisely because of Russia's 2014 invasion and 2022 war. Any attempt on the part of Ukraine to join the EU would imply the reinstatement of minority rights and protections in a way that is compatible with EU legislation.

blub 4y ago
What do you mean by “failing to install a pro-Russian administration in Kiev”? The Maidan revolution (some call it coup) forced out the elected president which was perhaps pro-Russia but mostly just corrupt, as were most Ukrainian politicians. He at least had the right idea of having Ukraine act as a neutral country between two power blocs. As for minority rights, Ukraine doesn’t seem to be in a hurry to restore them, as repeatedly criticized by Hungary and Romania. Ukraine is becoming a very nationalist, illiberal state, the odds of it joining the EU are slim to none.
- petre 4y ago
  Poisoning your opposition candidate with dioxyne, jaling his ally doesn't count, right? Let alone how elections were manipulated by Russia. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-20120888 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-20120888
  - blub 4y ago
    Your link doesn’t reference any poisonings and the event you’re referring to is old history at this point, I’m not sure why you’re bringing it up. I thought you were talking about Yanukovich in your original comment, since you kept mentioning 2014 and now you’ve jumped back to 2004.
miguelazo 4y ago
What 2014 invasion? The annexation of Crimea (which in historical terms has never really been part of Ukraine anyway) was certainly NOT an invasion. The referendum, which had some international observers, was overwhelmingly in favor of joining Russia. Russia took that step in response to Victoria Nuland and the US installing a puppet government.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > referendum, which had some international observers Please [1]. On a related note, Siberia wasn’t historically part of Russia and I think it’s fine time they separated [2]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referend... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_Republic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_Republic

by petre 4y ago

blub 4y ago

What do you mean by “failing to install a pro-Russian administration in Kiev”? The Maidan revolution (some call it coup) forced out the elected president which was perhaps pro-Russia but mostly just corrupt, as were most Ukrainian politicians. He at least had the right idea of having Ukraine act as a neutral country between two power blocs. As for minority rights, Ukraine doesn’t seem to be in a hurry to restore them, as repeatedly criticized by Hungary and Romania. Ukraine is becoming a very nationalist, illiberal state, the odds of it joining the EU are slim to none.

petre 4y ago
Poisoning your opposition candidate with dioxyne, jaling his ally doesn't count, right? Let alone how elections were manipulated by Russia. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-20120888 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-20120888
- blub 4y ago
  Your link doesn’t reference any poisonings and the event you’re referring to is old history at this point, I’m not sure why you’re bringing it up. I thought you were talking about Yanukovich in your original comment, since you kept mentioning 2014 and now you’ve jumped back to 2004.

miguelazo 4y ago

What 2014 invasion? The annexation of Crimea (which in historical terms has never really been part of Ukraine anyway) was certainly NOT an invasion. The referendum, which had some international observers, was overwhelmingly in favor of joining Russia. Russia took that step in response to Victoria Nuland and the US installing a puppet government.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> referendum, which had some international observers Please [1]. On a related note, Siberia wasn’t historically part of Russia and I think it’s fine time they separated [2]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referend... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_Republic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_Republic