6 ms·

An Upper Palaeolithic Proto-Writing System and Phenological Calendar

80 points by benbreen 4y ago

causality0 4y ago
Absolutely incredible if they're right. This would rewrite the entire history of writing. Is there reason to believe this writing was widespread among paleolithic humans, or just in Europe? Is there a lineage of descent between this and our earliest known historical writing systems or did those systems arise from something else? Just the idea that writing arose not to keep track of trade and inventories would be revolutionary in the field.
dang 4y ago
Related ongoing thread: Independent researcher claims to find writing in prehistoric cave paintings - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34273837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34273837 - Jan 2023 (7 comments)
jdmark 4y ago
[flagged]
- philipov 4y ago
  ???
- n0us 4y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart/
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  Assuming you're not just a common troll, if your hypothesis differs from that of the parent post. Why do you think you are right and they are wrong?
- FFRefresh 4y ago
  That's great! For the sake of humanity, can you please start documenting your realizations/interpretations in some sort of readable/understandable format, with your reasoning? Especially those realizations/interpretations which are not super widely held, as it'll help move the ball forward with humanity understanding how things have evolved. If you did this, then perhaps you'd be a bit less frustrated when others come to your interpretation years later. And if you are looking to status seek, you can gain some status points in the process!
yodon 4y ago
Dupe https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34257150#34266486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34257150#34266486
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
lkrubner 4y ago
"painted and engraved non-figurative signs from at least ~42,000 BP and figurative images (notably animals) from at least 37,000 BP" At least so far, no one has found any DNA trace of these people among modern Europeans. At least for now, it seems these Homo Sapiens went extinct the same time that the Neanderthals went extinct. Europe was re-populated around 15,000 years ago by a group that expanded from Anatolia. This group has left a DNA trace that still exists in modern Europeans. But at least for now, it is not clear that modern Europeans have any ancestry that goes back to 40,000 BC. https://marketbusinessnews.com/dramatic-population-change-in-europe-15000-years-ago-dna-evidence-shows/123592/ https://marketbusinessnews.com/dramatic-population-change-in...
- PaulRobinson 4y ago
  Europeans have ancestry have that goes back beyond 40000 BC. The article you link to states: "Genetic data about early modern humans who existed for up to 40,000 years as hunter-gatherers in Europe is scarce, while their population dynamics and structure is virtually unknown." I think what you meant then, is that European ancestry has not been fully understood or explained, otherwise your statement suggests Europeans were beamed here from an alien planet ~42k years ago, and that they are not genetically descended from the same roots as other humans - quite a claim, if that's what you're suggesting. Hate to be pedantic, but small words have big meaning in this context.
  - lkrubner 4y ago
    This sentence is either incoherent or directly contradicted by the article that I linked to: "Europeans have ancestry have that goes back beyond 40000 BC" I cannot figure out what you mean, but I think you misunderstood what I wrote. The article that I linked to says that, of the European DNA that has been captured from samples from 40,000 years ago, no trace of the DNA can be found in the modern population, therefore it seems the Homo Sapiens who were alive in Europe 40,000 years ago eventually went extinct. There was a dramatic change in the DNA in human samples found from 15,000 years ago, and this DNA is found in modern populations. Therefore, the early populations of Europe were wiped out, and replaced by the new populations that arrived 15,000 years ago. It is believed that there were human populations that expanded from Anatolia and which spread across Europe 15,000 years ago. Based on the DNA evidence, this new population completely replaced earlier populations. None of the earlier populations survived, since none of their DNA is found in modern populations. You wrote: "otherwise your statement suggests Europeans were beamed here from an alien planet ~42k years ago" I wrote: "Europe was re-populated around 15,000 years ago by a group that expanded from Anatolia." I think it is more likely that the new population came from Anatolia. This is easier to believe than thinking that the new population came from an alien planet.
ferchi 4y ago
Fernanda
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

80 points by benbreen 4y ago

Absolutely incredible if they're right. This would rewrite the entire history of writing. Is there reason to believe this writing was widespread among paleolithic humans, or just in Europe? Is there a lineage of descent between this and our earliest known historical writing systems or did those systems arise from something else? Just the idea that writing arose not to keep track of trade and inventories would be revolutionary in the field.

dang 4y ago

Related ongoing thread: Independent researcher claims to find writing in prehistoric cave paintings - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34273837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34273837 - Jan 2023 (7 comments)

jdmark 4y ago

[flagged]

philipov 4y ago
???
n0us 4y ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart/
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
s1artibartfast 4y ago
Assuming you're not just a common troll, if your hypothesis differs from that of the parent post. Why do you think you are right and they are wrong?
FFRefresh 4y ago
That's great! For the sake of humanity, can you please start documenting your realizations/interpretations in some sort of readable/understandable format, with your reasoning? Especially those realizations/interpretations which are not super widely held, as it'll help move the ball forward with humanity understanding how things have evolved. If you did this, then perhaps you'd be a bit less frustrated when others come to your interpretation years later. And if you are looking to status seek, you can gain some status points in the process!

yodon 4y ago

Dupe https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34257150#34266486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34257150#34266486

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

lkrubner 4y ago

"painted and engraved non-figurative signs from at least ~42,000 BP and figurative images (notably animals) from at least 37,000 BP" At least so far, no one has found any DNA trace of these people among modern Europeans. At least for now, it seems these Homo Sapiens went extinct the same time that the Neanderthals went extinct. Europe was re-populated around 15,000 years ago by a group that expanded from Anatolia. This group has left a DNA trace that still exists in modern Europeans. But at least for now, it is not clear that modern Europeans have any ancestry that goes back to 40,000 BC. https://marketbusinessnews.com/dramatic-population-change-in-europe-15000-years-ago-dna-evidence-shows/123592/ https://marketbusinessnews.com/dramatic-population-change-in...

PaulRobinson 4y ago
Europeans have ancestry have that goes back beyond 40000 BC. The article you link to states: "Genetic data about early modern humans who existed for up to 40,000 years as hunter-gatherers in Europe is scarce, while their population dynamics and structure is virtually unknown." I think what you meant then, is that European ancestry has not been fully understood or explained, otherwise your statement suggests Europeans were beamed here from an alien planet ~42k years ago, and that they are not genetically descended from the same roots as other humans - quite a claim, if that's what you're suggesting. Hate to be pedantic, but small words have big meaning in this context.
- lkrubner 4y ago
  This sentence is either incoherent or directly contradicted by the article that I linked to: "Europeans have ancestry have that goes back beyond 40000 BC" I cannot figure out what you mean, but I think you misunderstood what I wrote. The article that I linked to says that, of the European DNA that has been captured from samples from 40,000 years ago, no trace of the DNA can be found in the modern population, therefore it seems the Homo Sapiens who were alive in Europe 40,000 years ago eventually went extinct. There was a dramatic change in the DNA in human samples found from 15,000 years ago, and this DNA is found in modern populations. Therefore, the early populations of Europe were wiped out, and replaced by the new populations that arrived 15,000 years ago. It is believed that there were human populations that expanded from Anatolia and which spread across Europe 15,000 years ago. Based on the DNA evidence, this new population completely replaced earlier populations. None of the earlier populations survived, since none of their DNA is found in modern populations. You wrote: "otherwise your statement suggests Europeans were beamed here from an alien planet ~42k years ago" I wrote: "Europe was re-populated around 15,000 years ago by a group that expanded from Anatolia." I think it is more likely that the new population came from Anatolia. This is easier to believe than thinking that the new population came from an alien planet.

ferchi 4y ago

Fernanda

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]