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This thread depresses me; I just read every comment. As an American, the visa stuff makes me sad, because it tells me that the system is broken. But what reall
by wyclif 15y ago
This thread depresses me; I just read every comment.
As an American, the visa stuff makes me sad, because it tells me that the system is broken. But what really gets to me, as a newbie developer, is the interview and hiring commentary. It makes me feel like there's just no hope for somebody like me-- I don't have a CS degree and come from the world of humanities and liberal arts. The furthest I went with math in Uni was Discrete. I don't take tests well, and I'm no good with heavy duty algorithmic methodology (though I do know some of them). I don't have any formulae memorized. I tend to think of programming like I do writing: I have great grammar, punctuation, and spelling.
I'm afraid I would fail miserably at these gauntlet-style tests applied by big SV companies. I love technology and I love building things and what I'm doing now, but the path of achievement and improvement professionally from novice to indispensible pro often seems cloudy to me. I think our culture needs to spend more time and money on apprenticeship and helping less experienced developers reach that next rung on the ladder. I'm happy that there seems to be some movement now in that direction, with Khan Academy, Codecademy, Code Year, &c.
- nir 15y agoDon't let it get to you. The best developers I've worked with didn't come from CS background at all. Employers worth working for will know to look at what you've built and your passion creating/learning rather than whether you can quote a square root function from memory. We're fortunate: if you wanted to get a job as a lawyer you couldn't just go and win some cases to prove your ability. But developers can always build something cool to show what they can do. It won't get you to Google or IBM, but it'll get you to any startup worth its salt.
- wyclif 15y agoThanks. Does Google still demand CS degrees? I ask because I can think of several people doing dev there now that don't.
- nir 15y agoIf you're outstanding at your field, Google probably wouldn't mind, but if generally my impression is degrees are highly valued there.
- objclxt 15y agoNot if you're recruited, no. I've had on-sites at Google for coding positions, and my degree is in visual arts! I suspect if you're just sending in an application to the site they may use degree subject just to filter out the insane number of applications they get.
- ahuibers 15y agoGood demos & demo code will go a long long way. Your liberal arts background may give you a good design and product eye.
- buro9 15y agoSome of the very best people I've ever hired have no degree. We hire based on experience, talent, and culture fit. Our problem when hiring is that those things are so hard to determine from a CV. We need some mechanism to filter the literally hundreds of applicants down to <50 so we could feasibly scan the CVs and then interview some. At that point, saying "compsci degree" on the job spec helps. But, for me and for the people I've always worked for: It's never been a requirement, if you can code well and can communicate effectively... APPLY FOR THE JOB. Anyone who wouldn't hire you isn't worth working for, for they aren't hiring the best candidates who in turn make the best colleagues and create the environment which is really satisfying to work in. Just understand that hirers need filters, and the degree is one of them... and tests are just microcosms to give an indication of your approach to a problem (the answer is frequently less important than seeing the way you approach the problem).