5 ms·

I don't know, when I used to work on farms, the old guys were a lot healthier than most of the people I see in tech nowadays. Although, most of that work isn't

by nverno 4y ago

I don't know, when I used to work on farms, the old guys were a lot healthier than most of the people I see in tech nowadays. Although, most of that work isn't unhealthily repetitive, like jack-hammering or something, so perhaps not a great example. But, use-it-or-lose-it is a real thing.

forgetfreeman 4y ago
Nah you've got it right and there are a shitload of studies that prove it: the most effective way for a human being to wreck their health is sitting on their ass all day.
- RunSet 4y ago
  I would be interested in reading such studies. Please don't take that as "Citation needed!" but rather genuine interest.
- alexvoda 4y ago
  Maybe a balance can be achieved. Someone can be a part time office worker, part time tradesman. This part-time aspect was one of the appealing aspects of ride-sharing apps when they first appeared. People with cars could have 9-5 jobs and before and after the job, exactly during rush hour, give a lift to a few people. Of course, they turned into the new taxi but controled by multinational corps and almost impossible to hail without a smartphone. We are speedruning Tolkien's law of decay.
  - clnq 4y ago
    In theory. But in practice, the tradesman hours would be so underpaid compared to SWE hours that I'd either want back into SWE full-time or to have those hours completely free of work as personal & family time. The opportunity costs here don't work out. Spending time away from my family for less money is not a good deal. Health is the opportunity cost otherwise, but it's hard to price health. And I don't mean that it's priceless; the price is ambiguous - is my health worth less or more than what half my salary buys me? For software engineers, this is a difficult question to answer. If I were working an entry-level job, my health would be more valuable to me. If I were at the peak of professional development (a figurehead at a massive company or someone whose work changes the world), my work would be more important. SWE work makes a lot of money, but somewhere in the range of where I value my health. How much $ a year is your health worth to you? Not a rhetorical question, would be interesting to see some answers if anyone can come up with a figure.
    - alexvoda 4y ago
      You are correct and that is why what I suggested doesn't broadly happen. There is value in specialization. Yet we can't help but ponder whether there might be a better way and what it might involve.
bryanrasmussen 4y ago
>when I used to work on farms, the old guys were a lot healthier than most of the people I see in tech nowadays. Right, I think you would need to check stats on how many people dropped out over the years due to health issues leaving behind these super healthy old guys to get an accurate picture.
midoridensha 4y ago
I think that's a bad comparison. Farm work is a lot more varied than the repetitive tasks that most trades work involves. It's not like jobs requiring, for example, wearing a hazmat suit and/or respirator all day, or constantly being around extremely loud noises.
prodent 4y ago
Survivorship bias.
watwut 4y ago
Are you sure they were "more healthy" rather then "good muscle and I don't know whether they had health issues"?
- giantg2 4y ago
  There have been studies about Amish. Granted they have some other lifestyle factors involved, but it seems like this is as close as you can get. https://time.com/5159857/amish-people-stay-healthy-in-old-age-heres-their-secret/ https://time.com/5159857/amish-people-stay-healthy-in-old-ag...
giantg2 4y ago
I'd believe it. The Amish are very healthy. https://time.com/5159857/amish-people-stay-healthy-in-old-age-heres-their-secret/ https://time.com/5159857/amish-people-stay-healthy-in-old-ag...
- LinuxBender 4y ago
  Could one of the factors for the Amish be teamwork? Tradesmen are often competing with their peers and working very fast, sometimes too fast and at risk of injury. All of the documentaries I have seen watching the Amish work, they work as a team following the mantra slow and steady wins the race. They work hard, but as a group.
LoudFrog 4y ago
I worked on a hay farm for a few years, and I constantly had injuries to my back muscles. Other employees had constant knee pain and neck pain. Nobody that worked there looked healthy. I was always tired and hated going to work. I feel way healthier working in tech.

by nverno 4y ago

forgetfreeman 4y ago

Nah you've got it right and there are a shitload of studies that prove it: the most effective way for a human being to wreck their health is sitting on their ass all day.

RunSet 4y ago
I would be interested in reading such studies. Please don't take that as "Citation needed!" but rather genuine interest.
alexvoda 4y ago
Maybe a balance can be achieved. Someone can be a part time office worker, part time tradesman. This part-time aspect was one of the appealing aspects of ride-sharing apps when they first appeared. People with cars could have 9-5 jobs and before and after the job, exactly during rush hour, give a lift to a few people. Of course, they turned into the new taxi but controled by multinational corps and almost impossible to hail without a smartphone. We are speedruning Tolkien's law of decay.
- clnq 4y ago
  In theory. But in practice, the tradesman hours would be so underpaid compared to SWE hours that I'd either want back into SWE full-time or to have those hours completely free of work as personal & family time. The opportunity costs here don't work out. Spending time away from my family for less money is not a good deal. Health is the opportunity cost otherwise, but it's hard to price health. And I don't mean that it's priceless; the price is ambiguous - is my health worth less or more than what half my salary buys me? For software engineers, this is a difficult question to answer. If I were working an entry-level job, my health would be more valuable to me. If I were at the peak of professional development (a figurehead at a massive company or someone whose work changes the world), my work would be more important. SWE work makes a lot of money, but somewhere in the range of where I value my health. How much $ a year is your health worth to you? Not a rhetorical question, would be interesting to see some answers if anyone can come up with a figure.
  - alexvoda 4y ago
    You are correct and that is why what I suggested doesn't broadly happen. There is value in specialization. Yet we can't help but ponder whether there might be a better way and what it might involve.

bryanrasmussen 4y ago

>when I used to work on farms, the old guys were a lot healthier than most of the people I see in tech nowadays. Right, I think you would need to check stats on how many people dropped out over the years due to health issues leaving behind these super healthy old guys to get an accurate picture.

midoridensha 4y ago

I think that's a bad comparison. Farm work is a lot more varied than the repetitive tasks that most trades work involves. It's not like jobs requiring, for example, wearing a hazmat suit and/or respirator all day, or constantly being around extremely loud noises.

prodent 4y ago

Survivorship bias.

watwut 4y ago

Are you sure they were "more healthy" rather then "good muscle and I don't know whether they had health issues"?

giantg2 4y ago
There have been studies about Amish. Granted they have some other lifestyle factors involved, but it seems like this is as close as you can get. https://time.com/5159857/amish-people-stay-healthy-in-old-age-heres-their-secret/ https://time.com/5159857/amish-people-stay-healthy-in-old-ag...

giantg2 4y ago

I'd believe it. The Amish are very healthy. https://time.com/5159857/amish-people-stay-healthy-in-old-age-heres-their-secret/ https://time.com/5159857/amish-people-stay-healthy-in-old-ag...

LinuxBender 4y ago
Could one of the factors for the Amish be teamwork? Tradesmen are often competing with their peers and working very fast, sometimes too fast and at risk of injury. All of the documentaries I have seen watching the Amish work, they work as a team following the mantra slow and steady wins the race. They work hard, but as a group.

LoudFrog 4y ago

I worked on a hay farm for a few years, and I constantly had injuries to my back muscles. Other employees had constant knee pain and neck pain. Nobody that worked there looked healthy. I was always tired and hated going to work. I feel way healthier working in tech.