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I am unable to follow your logic from the first sentence to the second please elaborate.

by chx 4y ago

Karrot_Kream 4y ago
The way you guarantee job stability would probably be to pay union members a salary even when they're temporarily not needed right? Then you pay this salary out using union dues. Union dues end up garnishing take-home wages which removes the incentive to specialize. ^ That was how I was imagining it. Am I wrong in thinking this way? Or is the argument that the urge to specialize is independent of wage?
- chx 4y ago
  A union negotiates salaries and work conditions both. Even with union dues your salary will be higher and work conditions so much better. Let's look at ATC as an example: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/air-traffic-controllers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/a... > Their work can be stressful because maximum concentration is required at all times. Night, weekend, and rotating shifts are common. Well, maybe there could be better agreements than rotating shifts on a very stressful job, don't you think so?
  - Karrot_Kream 4y ago
    I'm not talking about a generic "unions are good" argument. I know why unions exist, the history behind them throughout much of the West, their ties to worker parties and socialism etc. I'm specifically wondering what about unionizing (or in this case, re-unionizing) makes it more palatable for these highly specialized roles to exist. Is your argument then that working conditions for folks like HVAC techs are poor enough that unions are necessary to negotiate for better working conditions before people want to become HVAC techs? Generally, the more specialized labor is, the higher wage and benefits they can demand in a capitalist labor market. Supply and demand. For less skilled labor like general electricians I can understand the role of the union in negotiating for wages, benefits, and safety standards. For highly skilled labor like an HVAC tech, I don't see it.
    - chx 4y ago
      You seriously want me to dig up the stories on how everyone is mistreated? I already did for ATC. You can do your research for the rest. I am reasonable sure every worker in the US is mistreated.

I am unable to follow your logic from the first sentence to the second please elaborate.

by chx 4y ago

I am unable to follow your logic from the first sentence to the second please elaborate.

The way you guarantee job stability would probably be to pay union members a salary even when they're temporarily not needed right? Then you pay this salary out using union dues. Union dues end up garnishing take-home wages which removes the incentive to specialize. ^ That was how I was imagining it. Am I wrong in thinking this way? Or is the argument that the urge to specialize is independent of wage?

chx 4y ago
A union negotiates salaries and work conditions both. Even with union dues your salary will be higher and work conditions so much better. Let's look at ATC as an example: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/air-traffic-controllers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/a... > Their work can be stressful because maximum concentration is required at all times. Night, weekend, and rotating shifts are common. Well, maybe there could be better agreements than rotating shifts on a very stressful job, don't you think so?
- Karrot_Kream 4y ago
  I'm not talking about a generic "unions are good" argument. I know why unions exist, the history behind them throughout much of the West, their ties to worker parties and socialism etc. I'm specifically wondering what about unionizing (or in this case, re-unionizing) makes it more palatable for these highly specialized roles to exist. Is your argument then that working conditions for folks like HVAC techs are poor enough that unions are necessary to negotiate for better working conditions before people want to become HVAC techs? Generally, the more specialized labor is, the higher wage and benefits they can demand in a capitalist labor market. Supply and demand. For less skilled labor like general electricians I can understand the role of the union in negotiating for wages, benefits, and safety standards. For highly skilled labor like an HVAC tech, I don't see it.
  - chx 4y ago
    You seriously want me to dig up the stories on how everyone is mistreated? I already did for ATC. You can do your research for the rest. I am reasonable sure every worker in the US is mistreated.