3 ms·

Is there really nothing in the law preventing companies from doing things like this? Could they say something even more absurd like $1-$1,000,000?

t-writescode 4y ago
In the law? No; but, this is the sort of thing that people who care about equality in pay should look at and refuse to work at. If there can be an 800k difference between two different employees with the same title that sit next to each other, that's not a place I would want to work for and wouldn't even apply.
- lovecg 4y ago
  I strongly suspect no place would pay 800k otherwise. The reality is these companies cannot simply have 800k positions with well defined criteria - these compensation levels are reserved for people that would be especially painful to replace, and the criteria are rarely cut and dry. You could come up with a bigger hammer to prevent these practices, but in the end the exceptional employees are the only ones to lose - I bet companies would love there to be a blanket ban on large compensation in the industry.
  - t-writescode 4y ago
    > these compensation levels are reserved for people that would be especially painful to replace, and the criteria are rarely cut and dry. So they'd be more like the "fellow" position at other companies, then, yes? Or the senior staff engineers? The problem isn't the 900k, the problem is the 90-900k range. You can hide a lot of evil in a range that wide. You can hide gender and ethnic pay biases in that range. a 500-750k range for Principal engineers or 500k to 2MM range for "Senior Staff Engineers" makes more sense than 90k to 900k.
- jdminhbg 4y ago
  If it's possible for there to be an $800k difference I am definitely applying.
  - shagie 4y ago
    https://www.levels.fyi/companies/netflix/salaries/software-engineer/levels/l5 https://www.levels.fyi/companies/netflix/salaries/software-e... The lowest reported is $180k. The highest is $1.5M, but $900k is where most appear to top out.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > an 800k difference between two different employees with the same title Nothing wrong with this. I personally find titles annoying, compensation ceilings based on titles moreso, so this would seem a decent culture filter. (I also like working with teams and seeing colleagues as, if not necessarily friends, very close acquaintances, so Netflix wouldn’t be a fit.)
advisedwang 4y ago
Pay scale is defined as: > the salary or hourly wage range that the employer reasonably expects to pay for the position. This posting likely violates it as the position specifies a level and at that specific level that whole range is not reasonable. However enforcement requires a complaint: > 432.3. (d) (1) A person who claims to be aggrieved by a violation of this section may file a written complaint with the Labor Commissioner within one year after the date the person learned of the violation. The complaint shall state the name and address of the employer and shall provide a detailed account of the alleged violation, as may be required by the Labor Commissioner. and the fines aren't large. > (4) Upon finding that an employer has violated this section, the Labor Commissioner may order the employer to pay a civil penalty of no less than one hundred dollars ($100) and no more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000) per violation. The Labor Commissioner shall determine the amount of the penalty based on the totality of the circumstances, including, but not limited to, whether the employer has previously violated this section. For a first violation of subdivision (c), no penalty shall be assessed upon demonstration by the employer that all job postings for open positions have been updated to include the pay scale as required by this section. Although there's also the possibility of getting a court order to get them to fix it: > (2) A person who claims to be aggrieved by a violation of this section may also bring a civil action for injunctive relief and any other relief that the court deems appropriate. ref: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=LAB&sectionNum=432.3.&article=3.& https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Is there really nothing in the law preventing companies from doing things like this? The law specifies that the range must represent the reasonable expectation of the employer of pay for the position, so, were it challenged, it would be a question of fact if that whole range really was both the employers actual expected range, and whether the exepctation of the whole width of the range was objectively reasonable.

t-writescode 4y ago

In the law? No; but, this is the sort of thing that people who care about equality in pay should look at and refuse to work at. If there can be an 800k difference between two different employees with the same title that sit next to each other, that's not a place I would want to work for and wouldn't even apply.

lovecg 4y ago
I strongly suspect no place would pay 800k otherwise. The reality is these companies cannot simply have 800k positions with well defined criteria - these compensation levels are reserved for people that would be especially painful to replace, and the criteria are rarely cut and dry. You could come up with a bigger hammer to prevent these practices, but in the end the exceptional employees are the only ones to lose - I bet companies would love there to be a blanket ban on large compensation in the industry.
- t-writescode 4y ago
  > these compensation levels are reserved for people that would be especially painful to replace, and the criteria are rarely cut and dry. So they'd be more like the "fellow" position at other companies, then, yes? Or the senior staff engineers? The problem isn't the 900k, the problem is the 90-900k range. You can hide a lot of evil in a range that wide. You can hide gender and ethnic pay biases in that range. a 500-750k range for Principal engineers or 500k to 2MM range for "Senior Staff Engineers" makes more sense than 90k to 900k.
jdminhbg 4y ago
If it's possible for there to be an $800k difference I am definitely applying.
- shagie 4y ago
  https://www.levels.fyi/companies/netflix/salaries/software-engineer/levels/l5 https://www.levels.fyi/companies/netflix/salaries/software-e... The lowest reported is $180k. The highest is $1.5M, but $900k is where most appear to top out.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> an 800k difference between two different employees with the same title Nothing wrong with this. I personally find titles annoying, compensation ceilings based on titles moreso, so this would seem a decent culture filter. (I also like working with teams and seeing colleagues as, if not necessarily friends, very close acquaintances, so Netflix wouldn’t be a fit.)

advisedwang 4y ago

Pay scale is defined as: > the salary or hourly wage range that the employer reasonably expects to pay for the position. This posting likely violates it as the position specifies a level and at that specific level that whole range is not reasonable. However enforcement requires a complaint: > 432.3. (d) (1) A person who claims to be aggrieved by a violation of this section may file a written complaint with the Labor Commissioner within one year after the date the person learned of the violation. The complaint shall state the name and address of the employer and shall provide a detailed account of the alleged violation, as may be required by the Labor Commissioner. and the fines aren't large. > (4) Upon finding that an employer has violated this section, the Labor Commissioner may order the employer to pay a civil penalty of no less than one hundred dollars ($100) and no more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000) per violation. The Labor Commissioner shall determine the amount of the penalty based on the totality of the circumstances, including, but not limited to, whether the employer has previously violated this section. For a first violation of subdivision (c), no penalty shall be assessed upon demonstration by the employer that all job postings for open positions have been updated to include the pay scale as required by this section. Although there's also the possibility of getting a court order to get them to fix it: > (2) A person who claims to be aggrieved by a violation of this section may also bring a civil action for injunctive relief and any other relief that the court deems appropriate. ref: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=LAB&sectionNum=432.3.&article=3.& https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...

dragonwriter 4y ago

> Is there really nothing in the law preventing companies from doing things like this? The law specifies that the range must represent the reasonable expectation of the employer of pay for the position, so, were it challenged, it would be a question of fact if that whole range really was both the employers actual expected range, and whether the exepctation of the whole width of the range was objectively reasonable.