4 ms·

I'm a big fan of the recent Hitman trilogy, and I remember there being _outrage_ when the 3rd installment launched first on Epic. So far as I could tell, the pr

by scubbo 4y ago

I'm a big fan of the recent Hitman trilogy, and I remember there being _outrage_ when the 3rd installment launched first on Epic. So far as I could tell, the primary criticisms of Epic Games Launcher were 1) it didn't have as-good social features as Steam (for a game that doesn't support multiplayer, who cares?), and 2) it didn't have a cart to which you could add multiple items before checkout - have you _ever_ bought more than one item from Steam at once, not counting game-and-DLC (which would typically be available as a single-purchase bundle)? I mention this here because it's a valuable reminder that not everyone uses or experiences software in the same way as you. These people weren't wrong, they just had different evaluations of the "point" of a launcher than I did. EDIT: and this comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34265872 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34265872) lists a third reason - "exclusivity is bullshit". To which, uhhh.....sure, philosophically, I would _prefer_ for all content to be available on all platforms so I can pick-and-choose exactly the platform that I prefer. But if a) the platforms are all free, and b) the platforms all hit a minimum-bar of quality, such that being forced to use one of them doesn't majorly impact my experience, why would I care that "the icon to launch Hitman results in a different under-the-hood launcher than the icon to launch Half-Life"? (Note this is _different_ from disliking fragmentation of shows across Netflix/Disney+/Hulu/etc., because those aren't free)

kemayo 4y ago
I think the main objection I remember seeing was around exclusive games, with the rest of the complaints being largely nitpicking. (Which I get. Having to remember which launcher I need to run to find a game I want to play is a pain, albeit very much a first world problem.) > have you _ever_ bought more than one item from Steam at once, not counting game-and-DLC Yes. Generally during sales, admittedly, when I'll sometimes pick up a few games at once. As I recall it felt a bit strange that Epic lacked it, because they were promoting themselves at launch with a lot of heavy sales, which really maximized the odds that someone might want to pick up a few games at once.
ChoGGi 4y ago
> have you _ever_ bought more than one item from Steam Last weekend, I keep a wishlist and check it when sales happen. Nothing personal against epic (I like the freebies), just not a fan of exclusives. Plus I leave steam open in background, epic I have to open and wait for a 100+ MB update (crap internet around here).
- mappu 4y ago
  A Steam client update is also ~100MB and it happens frequently (seems like every 1-4 weeks at usual pace).
  - ChoGGi 4y ago
    I realise that, but I leave it running so it isn't as noticeable as something I run once in awhile :)
idiotsecant 4y ago
My general argument for not liking it when publishers force an alternative game platform goes like so: I don't want to support companies making me install and sign up for a zillion different software distribution platforms. I like steam, it works great and I think they give a pretty decent revenue split to creators and are overall not an obviously unethical POS company. As long as they keep that up I jsut want to use steam because it makes my life easier.
Rebelgecko 4y ago
Epic store has a cart now, IIRC reason #2 has been moot for at least a year
soulofmischief 4y ago
I buy multiple games at once on Steam all the time. #2 seems like such a silly criticism though.
capitainenemo 4y ago
I have well over a hundred games purchased on GoG or game website or humble bundle (many of them also on my steamdeck - kudos to Valve for building an open platform). I also have many hundreds purchased off of Itch (in large part due to the ukraine bundle). I prefer to purchase off GoG/humble just due to how locked down Steam is. I've bought the same game in a series on GoG versus Steam. On GoG I can LAN game with my kid to play co-op. On steam, I would need to purchase a controller, figure out how to use it, since basically no games support using 2 keyboard configurations on 2 USB keyboards, and steam requires purchasing multiple copies for LAN play. Also the steam client often sucks up gigs of RAM (seems to be due to the chrome web portion when checking process list) for no obvious reason that I have better use for. Epic on the other hand, I have purchased exactly one game at my kid's request and it being an epic exclusive. Due to no linux support of any kind. I've snagged a fair number of their freebies in the past, but only a few work somewhat under Wine, often only if circumventing their client, so it's not worth dropping my money on.
colechristensen 4y ago
Epic gets hate for anticompetitive behavior and essentially trying to buy success with exclusivity deals. They aren’t winning business by being better at anything they do, just by owning things and using that for leverage, and then people who care about a game feel forced to use a store they don’t want to use, sometimes after a last minute rug pull before release. Content + distribution houses shouldn’t be allowed to do these things in any industry.
- scubbo 4y ago
  Agreed - from a philosophical perspective it's distasteful for a company to be "successful" purely because they can "do underhanded business better" rather than because they are genuinely providing a better product. If that was the sole criticism, I'd entirely understand and support it. I'm trying to understand the claim that exclusivity is "awkward" rather than the claim that it's morally distasteful. If the game-service is free, and if you can launch the game directly with a desktop icon, why is your life complexified by the fact that a different launcher is used "under the hood"? To be clear, I am not disagreeing with your points at all. I am asking about a different point.
andrecarini 4y ago
Steam has many problems but given it's been out there for two decades it's inevitable that people will compare it to newcomers. Personally, I think EGS has much worse UX than Steam. 1) Slow on older computers: minimized it to the tray and brought it back? Keep looking at this blank screen and loading bar for 10 seconds now. Want to see your library? Here, wait 20 more seconds. 2) Got a free game, played it and didn't like it? Can't hide it from your library! 3) Want to know how large a download will be before you install a game? Good luck hunting that information! Steam isn't a perfect launcher, but it had a long time to iterate and gather feedback. (FWIW, Epic has a "Feedback and UX User Research" [1] program but it's only open to US residents — which I'm not.) [1]: https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/ux https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/ux
KerrAvon 4y ago
another reason is that Epic is completely unusable on some monitor sizes/resolutions, unless they’ve fixed that recently
jamie_ca 4y ago
The biggest part of the Hitman 3 outrage was that IOI dropped the ball on back-compatibility, it was a bit of a hassle and poorly communicated throughout how one would gain access to the levels from Hitman and Hitman 2 from purchased copies on Steam, inside Hitman 3 from Epic. IIRC one of the early messages was "you'll just need to own them on Epic - Hitman was free for a week a year ago and Hitman 2 was just on sale for 80% off last month (but isn't anymore)" and if you missed those you were SOL. Though I understand it's complicated by the publisher/ownership situation w/ Square Enix for the first Hitman, I'm glad they got it sorted for launch (and even happier that they're simplifying the whole trilogy behind one SKU later this month).
- scubbo 4y ago
  Right, yeah, absolutely no argument that there was significantly bad communication from IOI about compatibility - that was a clusterfuck.

by scubbo 4y ago

kemayo 4y ago

I think the main objection I remember seeing was around exclusive games, with the rest of the complaints being largely nitpicking. (Which I get. Having to remember which launcher I need to run to find a game I want to play is a pain, albeit very much a first world problem.) > have you _ever_ bought more than one item from Steam at once, not counting game-and-DLC Yes. Generally during sales, admittedly, when I'll sometimes pick up a few games at once. As I recall it felt a bit strange that Epic lacked it, because they were promoting themselves at launch with a lot of heavy sales, which really maximized the odds that someone might want to pick up a few games at once.

ChoGGi 4y ago

> have you _ever_ bought more than one item from Steam Last weekend, I keep a wishlist and check it when sales happen. Nothing personal against epic (I like the freebies), just not a fan of exclusives. Plus I leave steam open in background, epic I have to open and wait for a 100+ MB update (crap internet around here).

mappu 4y ago
A Steam client update is also ~100MB and it happens frequently (seems like every 1-4 weeks at usual pace).
- ChoGGi 4y ago
  I realise that, but I leave it running so it isn't as noticeable as something I run once in awhile :)

idiotsecant 4y ago

My general argument for not liking it when publishers force an alternative game platform goes like so: I don't want to support companies making me install and sign up for a zillion different software distribution platforms. I like steam, it works great and I think they give a pretty decent revenue split to creators and are overall not an obviously unethical POS company. As long as they keep that up I jsut want to use steam because it makes my life easier.

Rebelgecko 4y ago

Epic store has a cart now, IIRC reason #2 has been moot for at least a year

soulofmischief 4y ago

I buy multiple games at once on Steam all the time. #2 seems like such a silly criticism though.

capitainenemo 4y ago

I have well over a hundred games purchased on GoG or game website or humble bundle (many of them also on my steamdeck - kudos to Valve for building an open platform). I also have many hundreds purchased off of Itch (in large part due to the ukraine bundle). I prefer to purchase off GoG/humble just due to how locked down Steam is. I've bought the same game in a series on GoG versus Steam. On GoG I can LAN game with my kid to play co-op. On steam, I would need to purchase a controller, figure out how to use it, since basically no games support using 2 keyboard configurations on 2 USB keyboards, and steam requires purchasing multiple copies for LAN play. Also the steam client often sucks up gigs of RAM (seems to be due to the chrome web portion when checking process list) for no obvious reason that I have better use for. Epic on the other hand, I have purchased exactly one game at my kid's request and it being an epic exclusive. Due to no linux support of any kind. I've snagged a fair number of their freebies in the past, but only a few work somewhat under Wine, often only if circumventing their client, so it's not worth dropping my money on.

colechristensen 4y ago

Epic gets hate for anticompetitive behavior and essentially trying to buy success with exclusivity deals. They aren’t winning business by being better at anything they do, just by owning things and using that for leverage, and then people who care about a game feel forced to use a store they don’t want to use, sometimes after a last minute rug pull before release. Content + distribution houses shouldn’t be allowed to do these things in any industry.

scubbo 4y ago
Agreed - from a philosophical perspective it's distasteful for a company to be "successful" purely because they can "do underhanded business better" rather than because they are genuinely providing a better product. If that was the sole criticism, I'd entirely understand and support it. I'm trying to understand the claim that exclusivity is "awkward" rather than the claim that it's morally distasteful. If the game-service is free, and if you can launch the game directly with a desktop icon, why is your life complexified by the fact that a different launcher is used "under the hood"? To be clear, I am not disagreeing with your points at all. I am asking about a different point.

andrecarini 4y ago

Steam has many problems but given it's been out there for two decades it's inevitable that people will compare it to newcomers. Personally, I think EGS has much worse UX than Steam. 1) Slow on older computers: minimized it to the tray and brought it back? Keep looking at this blank screen and loading bar for 10 seconds now. Want to see your library? Here, wait 20 more seconds. 2) Got a free game, played it and didn't like it? Can't hide it from your library! 3) Want to know how large a download will be before you install a game? Good luck hunting that information! Steam isn't a perfect launcher, but it had a long time to iterate and gather feedback. (FWIW, Epic has a "Feedback and UX User Research" [1] program but it's only open to US residents — which I'm not.) [1]: https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/ux https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/ux

KerrAvon 4y ago

another reason is that Epic is completely unusable on some monitor sizes/resolutions, unless they’ve fixed that recently

jamie_ca 4y ago

The biggest part of the Hitman 3 outrage was that IOI dropped the ball on back-compatibility, it was a bit of a hassle and poorly communicated throughout how one would gain access to the levels from Hitman and Hitman 2 from purchased copies on Steam, inside Hitman 3 from Epic. IIRC one of the early messages was "you'll just need to own them on Epic - Hitman was free for a week a year ago and Hitman 2 was just on sale for 80% off last month (but isn't anymore)" and if you missed those you were SOL. Though I understand it's complicated by the publisher/ownership situation w/ Square Enix for the first Hitman, I'm glad they got it sorted for launch (and even happier that they're simplifying the whole trilogy behind one SKU later this month).

scubbo 4y ago
Right, yeah, absolutely no argument that there was significantly bad communication from IOI about compatibility - that was a clusterfuck.