6 ms·

>there is a finite end to the career this actually brings to mind something else: I think the idea of a career is dead for a lot of the 40 and under set. The

>there is a finite end to the career this actually brings to mind something else: I think the idea of a career is dead for a lot of the 40 and under set. The idea that you'll have the same job for decades is just nonsense so any job that feels too specific also feels like a it'll bite you in the ass in 5 years.

falcolas 4y ago
A good point. I think it's even dead for the over 40 crowd, as they try and slide into a new career which they can work part time and make a living on. Given how questionable retirement as a reality is these days.
- ghaff 4y ago
  In general, reasonably lucrative part-time work for someone coming from a professional role is tricky. And even more so if you really want to have fairly fine-grained control around both weekly workload and longer vacations. Well-paying work that lets you just pick and choose something here and there and then take a month off if you feel like it are pretty uncommon.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    You're 100% not wrong. I think in many cases through it's supplementing insufficient retirement funds, so even a low skill low wage part time job (making/selling art, garden fruits/vegetables, foods, etc) may be sufficient to provide enough runway for existing retirement funds.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Absolutely. And some people also seem to like that some of these jobs provide human interaction. Some of my private car drivers seem in this category. I'm more talking about situations where it's not mostly for the money but rather continuing the things people have enjoyed doing professionally without doing it full-time and without most of the downsides.
gspencley 4y ago
> I think the idea of a career is dead for a lot of the 40 and under set. The idea that you'll have the same job for decades is just nonsense We're probably just nit-picking over definitions but a career, in my opinion, is not "having the same job for decades." A career is a decision to specialize in a particular craft, trade or profession. The opposite of a career is someone who takes odd jobs. Hospitality one day, transportation the next, might dabble in manufacturing. These jobs pay the bills, and there's nothing wrong with "just" doing that, but they are disconnected jobs; not a career. I consider myself to have a career in software engineering but I have had multiple "jobs" over the decades that have contributed to that career. The career is the knowledge, the experience, the speciality, the reputation, the time spent focusing... all accumulated over my time developing that career. A career could be made by having a single job lasting from graduation until retirement, or it could be a handful of jobs that put to practice and develop the same skillset and knowledge.
- Avshalom 4y ago
  >> We're probably just nit-picking over definitions but a career No, that's fair. Like "carpenter" and "programmer" are both very broad professions of course. I think there's something about the way various industries get hit by down turns more or less visibly (like when construction goes down it feels like it's everybody, and so every framer, every concrete layer) that creates an (often false to be sure) sense of narrowness. But also Plumber, Electrician, Carpenter, etc. are very broad trades and even though articles get written using those words because everyone knows what they do, the articles are often really talking about the lack of elevator technicians, crane operators, industrial HVAC, PLC programmers, train conductors, air traffic controllers those more niche trades. A lot of machine operators end up so niche that their current company is the only one in a state that could employ them. My sister makes M&Ms, other than company policies about like sanitation she'd be no better than a new hire on the Twix line.
  - chx 4y ago
    > the lack of elevator technicians, crane operators, industrial HVAC, PLC programmers, train conductors, air traffic controllers Blame Reagan. Seriously. I am not joking. Blame Reagan. These need to be union jobs. These used to be union jobs. For a more nuanced history read https://wwnorton.com/books/Invisible-Hands/ https://wwnorton.com/books/Invisible-Hands/
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
It's because sticking with the same job is either not rewarding - you're a number, not a valued employee in a lot of jobs - or not feasible. Back in the day you could live a comfortable life off of your 40-odd year job, nowadays the advice given is to change jobs every few years because the increase in wage will outweigh any raises at your current job. Cost of living is going up faster than annual wage increases. Minimum wage in the US hasn't been updated since the 2000's, and if you do get paid minimum wage, it's your employer saying "I'd pay you less if I was allowed to". But a lot of wages will be based on minimum wage, so if that stagnates, so will other wages.

falcolas 4y ago

A good point. I think it's even dead for the over 40 crowd, as they try and slide into a new career which they can work part time and make a living on. Given how questionable retirement as a reality is these days.

ghaff 4y ago
In general, reasonably lucrative part-time work for someone coming from a professional role is tricky. And even more so if you really want to have fairly fine-grained control around both weekly workload and longer vacations. Well-paying work that lets you just pick and choose something here and there and then take a month off if you feel like it are pretty uncommon.
- falcolas 4y ago
  You're 100% not wrong. I think in many cases through it's supplementing insufficient retirement funds, so even a low skill low wage part time job (making/selling art, garden fruits/vegetables, foods, etc) may be sufficient to provide enough runway for existing retirement funds.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Absolutely. And some people also seem to like that some of these jobs provide human interaction. Some of my private car drivers seem in this category. I'm more talking about situations where it's not mostly for the money but rather continuing the things people have enjoyed doing professionally without doing it full-time and without most of the downsides.

gspencley 4y ago

> I think the idea of a career is dead for a lot of the 40 and under set. The idea that you'll have the same job for decades is just nonsense We're probably just nit-picking over definitions but a career, in my opinion, is not "having the same job for decades." A career is a decision to specialize in a particular craft, trade or profession. The opposite of a career is someone who takes odd jobs. Hospitality one day, transportation the next, might dabble in manufacturing. These jobs pay the bills, and there's nothing wrong with "just" doing that, but they are disconnected jobs; not a career. I consider myself to have a career in software engineering but I have had multiple "jobs" over the decades that have contributed to that career. The career is the knowledge, the experience, the speciality, the reputation, the time spent focusing... all accumulated over my time developing that career. A career could be made by having a single job lasting from graduation until retirement, or it could be a handful of jobs that put to practice and develop the same skillset and knowledge.

Avshalom 4y ago
>> We're probably just nit-picking over definitions but a career No, that's fair. Like "carpenter" and "programmer" are both very broad professions of course. I think there's something about the way various industries get hit by down turns more or less visibly (like when construction goes down it feels like it's everybody, and so every framer, every concrete layer) that creates an (often false to be sure) sense of narrowness. But also Plumber, Electrician, Carpenter, etc. are very broad trades and even though articles get written using those words because everyone knows what they do, the articles are often really talking about the lack of elevator technicians, crane operators, industrial HVAC, PLC programmers, train conductors, air traffic controllers those more niche trades. A lot of machine operators end up so niche that their current company is the only one in a state that could employ them. My sister makes M&Ms, other than company policies about like sanitation she'd be no better than a new hire on the Twix line.
- chx 4y ago
  > the lack of elevator technicians, crane operators, industrial HVAC, PLC programmers, train conductors, air traffic controllers Blame Reagan. Seriously. I am not joking. Blame Reagan. These need to be union jobs. These used to be union jobs. For a more nuanced history read https://wwnorton.com/books/Invisible-Hands/ https://wwnorton.com/books/Invisible-Hands/

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

It's because sticking with the same job is either not rewarding - you're a number, not a valued employee in a lot of jobs - or not feasible. Back in the day you could live a comfortable life off of your 40-odd year job, nowadays the advice given is to change jobs every few years because the increase in wage will outweigh any raises at your current job. Cost of living is going up faster than annual wage increases. Minimum wage in the US hasn't been updated since the 2000's, and if you do get paid minimum wage, it's your employer saying "I'd pay you less if I was allowed to". But a lot of wages will be based on minimum wage, so if that stagnates, so will other wages.