4 ms·

I agree with you: what we think of as 'pro' programming -- writing large programs in formal languages and running it past an interpreter/compiler -- is probably

I agree with you: what we think of as 'pro' programming -- writing large programs in formal languages and running it past an interpreter/compiler -- is probably only something the few will really get into. However, there's a couple of exceptions to this idea I'm not sure how to handle. MS EXCEL : It's a programming experience, of a sort, and is incredibly popular. I think it uses similar skills to writing code, but is just much more 'gentle' on the brain. There's a programming nature in excel formulae; =SUM(A3:A14) / COUNT(A3:A14) if you see what I mean... BASIC : Back in the 80's, everyone and his dog had a go at BASIC programming. Most of my friends and their dads got their hands dirty typing in programs from magazines. It suggests that getting lots of people involved in simple languages might be feasible.

Homunculiheaded 15y ago
I actually think the excel example demonstrates that we are unlikely to see that many more programmers in the future. As much as people use excel in their offices there is still the idea of the 'excel wizard' who really understands the functions and features of excel. It's actually quite surprising how many people I've encountered who use excel pretty frequently and still don't know many of it's basic features. The fact that there is the idea of 'excel wizard' means that for most people even the programmatic aspect of excel is elusive and uninviting.
- rythie 15y ago
  I remember in 90s you were called a computer wizard if you how to type a document and print it. Expectations change.
  - stevecooperorg 15y ago
    Very true. Anyone who could confidently boot up a computer had a that geek cache/tarnish. Is there an example of expectations changing around programming or automation, specifically? Programming, as opposed to computer literacy. I suppose what I'm wondering is, why is there such a barrier to programming? People are more and more comfortable with complex apps, but not really more liable to fire up some kind of text editor... It's quite a jump to make on your own, I think -- say, going from Excel formulae to VBA macros, or using a WYSIWYG HTML editor to coding JavaScript.
  - ojbyrne 15y ago
    However in the 80s I remember if you understood Wordperfect thoroughly (i.e. could do reveal codes and manipulate them) you were called a "secretary." Some form of dumbing down seemed to happen when the GUI came in.
    - rythie 15y ago
      You should see the command line interface my travel agent has (maybe all of them, I don't know), they seem to memorize 100s of airport short codes and use an odd syntax surprisingly quickly for 'non-computer' people.
  - pyre 15y ago
    I was called a 'computer wizard' as early as 3 years ago for knowing how to change the wallpaper in Windows, and also for knowing how to use Alt-Tab to switch between windows.
    - stevecooperorg 15y ago
      That is impressive, though ;)
- stevecooperorg 15y ago
  I think there's a pyramid of automation. Something like 1. Set an alarm on a phone ... 4. Basic Excel formulae 5. Excel Wizard ... 7. JavaScript copy-paste coder ... 10. Professional programmer The original post suggested that there are more and more incentives for people to push themselves up the ladder. I don't think it'll necessarily mean a whole segment of people people jump from 2 to 10; rather, I think peopel trying to get an edge in the job market could shift up a bit, taking the distribution higher. So Excel users will become Excel wizards, word processor users become HTML coders, etc
jashmenn 15y ago
Yes exactly! There have been times in history (pre-printing-press) where most people couldn't even read. I'm sure there where many scribes who would look down their noses and say that the common man would never take the time to read for himself. Our society has grown to be incredibly complex. Imagine taking your great-great-great-great-great-grandfather and dropping him in modern times today and asking him to fill out the forms to get a drivers license, prepare his own taxes, set the clock on your dvd player, or send an email on an iPhone. I guess my point is that the "common" man is pretty capable of feats that would be considered extremely technical from a historic vantage point.
- mistercheese 15y ago
  I was also about the use writing and reading as an example of knowledge that used to be limited to just specialized roles. While there are still professions that deal exclusively with writing exceptionally well, it's now part of our basic education. I think in a similar way, computer literacy could be just a matter of education.
  - GoldenMonkey 15y ago
    yes, but we get 12+ years of reading and writing education.
    - mistercheese 15y ago
      I believe we could really start teaching code at a relatively young age too, or at least start teaching them the ability to have the mindset for programming.
- cafard 15y ago
  Having long ago been a copy editor, and now being a member of a book club, I'd just point out that not all who write write well, and that many who read do so with limited understanding.

Homunculiheaded 15y ago

I actually think the excel example demonstrates that we are unlikely to see that many more programmers in the future. As much as people use excel in their offices there is still the idea of the 'excel wizard' who really understands the functions and features of excel. It's actually quite surprising how many people I've encountered who use excel pretty frequently and still don't know many of it's basic features. The fact that there is the idea of 'excel wizard' means that for most people even the programmatic aspect of excel is elusive and uninviting.

rythie 15y ago
I remember in 90s you were called a computer wizard if you how to type a document and print it. Expectations change.
- stevecooperorg 15y ago
  Very true. Anyone who could confidently boot up a computer had a that geek cache/tarnish. Is there an example of expectations changing around programming or automation, specifically? Programming, as opposed to computer literacy. I suppose what I'm wondering is, why is there such a barrier to programming? People are more and more comfortable with complex apps, but not really more liable to fire up some kind of text editor... It's quite a jump to make on your own, I think -- say, going from Excel formulae to VBA macros, or using a WYSIWYG HTML editor to coding JavaScript.
- ojbyrne 15y ago
  However in the 80s I remember if you understood Wordperfect thoroughly (i.e. could do reveal codes and manipulate them) you were called a "secretary." Some form of dumbing down seemed to happen when the GUI came in.
  - rythie 15y ago
    You should see the command line interface my travel agent has (maybe all of them, I don't know), they seem to memorize 100s of airport short codes and use an odd syntax surprisingly quickly for 'non-computer' people.
- pyre 15y ago
  I was called a 'computer wizard' as early as 3 years ago for knowing how to change the wallpaper in Windows, and also for knowing how to use Alt-Tab to switch between windows.
  - stevecooperorg 15y ago
    That is impressive, though ;)
stevecooperorg 15y ago
I think there's a pyramid of automation. Something like 1. Set an alarm on a phone ... 4. Basic Excel formulae 5. Excel Wizard ... 7. JavaScript copy-paste coder ... 10. Professional programmer The original post suggested that there are more and more incentives for people to push themselves up the ladder. I don't think it'll necessarily mean a whole segment of people people jump from 2 to 10; rather, I think peopel trying to get an edge in the job market could shift up a bit, taking the distribution higher. So Excel users will become Excel wizards, word processor users become HTML coders, etc

jashmenn 15y ago

Yes exactly! There have been times in history (pre-printing-press) where most people couldn't even read. I'm sure there where many scribes who would look down their noses and say that the common man would never take the time to read for himself. Our society has grown to be incredibly complex. Imagine taking your great-great-great-great-great-grandfather and dropping him in modern times today and asking him to fill out the forms to get a drivers license, prepare his own taxes, set the clock on your dvd player, or send an email on an iPhone. I guess my point is that the "common" man is pretty capable of feats that would be considered extremely technical from a historic vantage point.

mistercheese 15y ago
I was also about the use writing and reading as an example of knowledge that used to be limited to just specialized roles. While there are still professions that deal exclusively with writing exceptionally well, it's now part of our basic education. I think in a similar way, computer literacy could be just a matter of education.
- GoldenMonkey 15y ago
  yes, but we get 12+ years of reading and writing education.
  - mistercheese 15y ago
    I believe we could really start teaching code at a relatively young age too, or at least start teaching them the ability to have the mindset for programming.
cafard 15y ago
Having long ago been a copy editor, and now being a member of a book club, I'd just point out that not all who write write well, and that many who read do so with limited understanding.