4 ms·

> Your employer definitely got legal advice on anything they put in front of you, why shouldn’t you do the same before signing? Because it costs $700/hour

elil17 4y ago
If you're hiring a top law firm. Plenty of lawyers can be had for $100/hour and are well qualified to review employment terms.
- darth_avocado 4y ago
  If you’re in any big city, you’re not going to get more than a “consultation” of half an hour for $100. Most of the answers you’ll get in that meeting are the ones you can find by a quick Google search, anything more and it will cost you a lot more. The only cheap option, if you’re lucky, is the local bar association usually does pro bono office hours that you could possibly sign up for and get in. Those don’t work for time sensitive issues like when you have to sign a contract by X date.
  - elil17 4y ago
    Well don't go to a lawyer in a big city? You can easily interact with a lawyer virtually. Even if all they do is tell you what you could find out in a Google search if you knew what to search, it's going to be more useful for the average person because lawyers have the confidence to interpret legal terminology, contextualize what they are telling you, and recognize what is and is not normal (e.g. notice predatory terms in a contract).
    - jacobr1 4y ago
      Also commonly-held positions that are false, or not applicable in a certain jurisdiction. Google can be misleading. This is one of the big advantages of having a good network of friends and family with a wide variety of expertise. I wouldn't necessarily ask my lawyer friends to review a contract for me ... but I won't hesitate to ask if I should ask a lawyer, or about a general principle or clause that seems weird and help inform if I need more specific paid advice.
    - bushbaba 4y ago
      I wonder if basic legal issues will one day be handled by something like chatGPT.
      - nullsense 4y ago
        It would have to stop confidently making bullshit first I would imagine.
  - Alupis 4y ago
    You do not need to go sit in some fancy law firm's office to get good legal advice. Just because you live in a Big City doesn't mean you need to pay Big City "Power Firm" rates for basic contract advice and consultations. In those situations you're not meeting with partners anyway - you're getting assigned to a junior associate at best. Often, the paralegals end up doing all the grunt work anyway... and if you're not careful you'll pay them as-if a senior partner dedicated their entire day to your basic mundane situation.
- D13Fd 4y ago
  I agree $700/hr is higher than necessary. But I'm not sure what kind of lawyer you are going to get for $100/hr if you're talking about within the U.S.
  - elil17 4y ago
    Small town, private practice (not a big law firm)
    - digitalsushi 4y ago
      I dont know anything about lawyers. Are there cheap city lawyers? Are there expensive small town private practice lawyers? What makes a lawyer's value go up? I'm asking a non rhetorical question, I really dont know
      - nibbleshifter 4y ago
        Yes to both. Funnily enough, lawyers can be cheaper in large cities where there's more of em. If you run into bother in some one lawyer town, they sometimes might think of taking the proverbial piss.
thekiptxt 4y ago
Thank you! Honestly this is one of my biggest pet peeves with any “consult a $SPECIALIST” advice. Yes, if my money and time were endless, this is sound advice. Tangentially, when I express frustration at police incompetence in knowing the law (I live in the US, and many law enforcement officers are under-trained), a common response is “this shouldn’t be an issue as you can follow up in court and get the charges dismissed, or even sue the city”. Again, fair suggestion if I have dozens of hours of time on my hand and thousands in lawyer fees to burn.
- throwaway98797 4y ago
  plus, you have to trust you judgement that said expert is a good expert and at that point might as well just risk it and go without all experts are mostly useful after 10k-100k and even then they suck.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
DwnVoteHoneyPot 4y ago
I tend to work for smaller companies so I've been laid off a few times. I've hired employment lawyers each time. I've paid them approx $2K-$3K each time and have receive much more back.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- CoastalCoder 4y ago
  Can you say more about how they were helpful?
  - DwnVoteHoneyPot 4y ago
    First, I worked at Company A for 5 years, then was actively recruited to Company B. Company B laid me off after 11 months. The typical severance payment is 1 month for each year of service, so you'd assume I'd only get ~1 month of pay. The lawyer was able to get me 1 month of salary for each of 5 years plus 11 months of service. There is something in the laws* about them actively recruiting, luring me away from Company A that makes Company B need to compensate me for the loss of leaving Company A. *I'm not a lawyer, but I think it's case law and not statutory laws. Second, employment lawyer told me when they announce a large layoff, they have everything planned. Including a budget for people who ask for more money. Since HR is dealing with hundreds or thousands of layoffs (eg. Amazon), they don't have time/resources to argue with you. If you ask for more severance, they'll just give it to you (budget already approved), especially if you are represented by a lawyer. EDIT: Third, I'm mid-career. Lawyer told me at my level, it takes longer to find a job. Why accept a generic package that juniors will get when law* already agrees that it takes me longer to find work. Point of the severance is to bridge me to my next job, I should get more.

elil17 4y ago

If you're hiring a top law firm. Plenty of lawyers can be had for $100/hour and are well qualified to review employment terms.

darth_avocado 4y ago
If you’re in any big city, you’re not going to get more than a “consultation” of half an hour for $100. Most of the answers you’ll get in that meeting are the ones you can find by a quick Google search, anything more and it will cost you a lot more. The only cheap option, if you’re lucky, is the local bar association usually does pro bono office hours that you could possibly sign up for and get in. Those don’t work for time sensitive issues like when you have to sign a contract by X date.
- elil17 4y ago
  Well don't go to a lawyer in a big city? You can easily interact with a lawyer virtually. Even if all they do is tell you what you could find out in a Google search if you knew what to search, it's going to be more useful for the average person because lawyers have the confidence to interpret legal terminology, contextualize what they are telling you, and recognize what is and is not normal (e.g. notice predatory terms in a contract).
  - jacobr1 4y ago
    Also commonly-held positions that are false, or not applicable in a certain jurisdiction. Google can be misleading. This is one of the big advantages of having a good network of friends and family with a wide variety of expertise. I wouldn't necessarily ask my lawyer friends to review a contract for me ... but I won't hesitate to ask if I should ask a lawyer, or about a general principle or clause that seems weird and help inform if I need more specific paid advice.
  - bushbaba 4y ago
    I wonder if basic legal issues will one day be handled by something like chatGPT.
    - nullsense 4y ago
      It would have to stop confidently making bullshit first I would imagine.
- Alupis 4y ago
  You do not need to go sit in some fancy law firm's office to get good legal advice. Just because you live in a Big City doesn't mean you need to pay Big City "Power Firm" rates for basic contract advice and consultations. In those situations you're not meeting with partners anyway - you're getting assigned to a junior associate at best. Often, the paralegals end up doing all the grunt work anyway... and if you're not careful you'll pay them as-if a senior partner dedicated their entire day to your basic mundane situation.
D13Fd 4y ago
I agree $700/hr is higher than necessary. But I'm not sure what kind of lawyer you are going to get for $100/hr if you're talking about within the U.S.
- elil17 4y ago
  Small town, private practice (not a big law firm)
  - digitalsushi 4y ago
    I dont know anything about lawyers. Are there cheap city lawyers? Are there expensive small town private practice lawyers? What makes a lawyer's value go up? I'm asking a non rhetorical question, I really dont know
    - nibbleshifter 4y ago
      Yes to both. Funnily enough, lawyers can be cheaper in large cities where there's more of em. If you run into bother in some one lawyer town, they sometimes might think of taking the proverbial piss.

thekiptxt 4y ago

Thank you! Honestly this is one of my biggest pet peeves with any “consult a $SPECIALIST” advice. Yes, if my money and time were endless, this is sound advice. Tangentially, when I express frustration at police incompetence in knowing the law (I live in the US, and many law enforcement officers are under-trained), a common response is “this shouldn’t be an issue as you can follow up in court and get the charges dismissed, or even sue the city”. Again, fair suggestion if I have dozens of hours of time on my hand and thousands in lawyer fees to burn.

throwaway98797 4y ago
plus, you have to trust you judgement that said expert is a good expert and at that point might as well just risk it and go without all experts are mostly useful after 10k-100k and even then they suck.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

DwnVoteHoneyPot 4y ago

I tend to work for smaller companies so I've been laid off a few times. I've hired employment lawyers each time. I've paid them approx $2K-$3K each time and have receive much more back.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
CoastalCoder 4y ago
Can you say more about how they were helpful?
- DwnVoteHoneyPot 4y ago
  First, I worked at Company A for 5 years, then was actively recruited to Company B. Company B laid me off after 11 months. The typical severance payment is 1 month for each year of service, so you'd assume I'd only get ~1 month of pay. The lawyer was able to get me 1 month of salary for each of 5 years plus 11 months of service. There is something in the laws* about them actively recruiting, luring me away from Company A that makes Company B need to compensate me for the loss of leaving Company A. *I'm not a lawyer, but I think it's case law and not statutory laws. Second, employment lawyer told me when they announce a large layoff, they have everything planned. Including a budget for people who ask for more money. Since HR is dealing with hundreds or thousands of layoffs (eg. Amazon), they don't have time/resources to argue with you. If you ask for more severance, they'll just give it to you (budget already approved), especially if you are represented by a lawyer. EDIT: Third, I'm mid-career. Lawyer told me at my level, it takes longer to find a job. Why accept a generic package that juniors will get when law* already agrees that it takes me longer to find work. Point of the severance is to bridge me to my next job, I should get more.