5 ms·

Fitting pipes together is not "back breaking". We're not talking about framing or roofing, in the contracting world plumbing is a light duty skilled trade that

Fitting pipes together is not "back breaking". We're not talking about framing or roofing, in the contracting world plumbing is a light duty skilled trade that anyone with half a brain can earn a 6-figure income on. If you take care of yourself and wear protective equipment, you won't have a problem with your knees in middle age. There's no "forced retirement", someone working as an independent contractor for 25 years is likely more wealthy than the average software engineer in most LCOL or MCOL parts of the country. The problem isn't "lack of immigrants". The problem is that when surveyed, 25% of Gen-Z said they plan to pursue a career as "influencers". My opinion is that younger generations have been brought up in a world where they don't need to take personal responsibility or ever get their hands dirty.

unethical_ban 4y ago
I see this line about kids wanting to be influencers. Is there a credible source? And is this any different than them wanting to be a rock star, movie star, etc.? Most who have this hairbrained dream can fail quickly and hopefully with minimal cost or embarrassment and move on with their lives.
- nullsense 4y ago
  My 7 year old routinely tells me he is going to be a YouTuber. I routinely remind him about power law distributions. So far he has made 2 YouTube channels with a handful of videos each and even less subscribers. I can't recall if it was for his 6th or 7th birthday but he had been talking a lot about wanting his own "merch", so I asked him what kind of design would he put on his "merch" and he told me what he wanted. I whipped one up on a t-shirt making site and got it for him for his birthday. He still wears it and still refers to it as his "merch". I think it's mostly harmless and of course most kids will grow out of it. It's definitely like wanting to be a rockstar, but I think the scale is larger and the barrier to entry so much lower that they seem much more convinced it's actually a viable option than what I thought being a rockstar was when I was a kid. My guess is for many of them it will be a second "wait, Santa isn't real?" moment when they get a bit older and realize that power law distributions are a thing and that's just how it is. Followed by fun times reminiscing about it with each other as adults.
  - silisili 4y ago
    I think this comment is the first time I've realized how out of touch I may have become with the world. I had no idea that kids wants to be influencers and Youtubers instead of say, rock stars or sports stars. In a way I find it a little sad, as a reminder humans keep getting more isolated with tech. Where 30 years ago we wanted people cheering us on, chanting our name, etc... people now seem to desire views, likes, and whatnot. I'm not saying one is better than the other, it's just really hard for my brain to process as I don't understand it.
giraffe_lady 4y ago
Who do you think unloads the pipes from the truck, carries them up the stairs or drags them into the crawlspaces on their knees? I've never met a plumber over 50 who didn't have chronic pain in their back, shoulders or knees. > My opinion is that younger generations have been brought up in a world where they don't need to take personal responsibility or ever get their hands dirty. An opinion as old as recorded history at least. It wasn't novel or insightful when Horace said it in 40BC and it isn't now.
bryanlarsen 4y ago
The median income for a plumber is $50k, only 10% make above $91k. https://insights.workwave.com/industry/plumbing-electrical/plumber-salary/ https://insights.workwave.com/industry/plumbing-electrical/p... 6-figure incomes for plumbers are rare.
- megaman821 4y ago
  Where is all the money people paying tradespeople going? If I need any plumbing work done it costs me $200 an hour or more. Even with overhead and expenses, 10 hours a week gets you more than $50k a year. Twenty years ago my grandfather was a marine plumber and made $200k a year. How many apprentices and part-time plumber are in these datasets?
  - falcolas 4y ago
    Same places it always has? Insurance, materials, taxes, wages, profits.
  - joecot 4y ago
    If retail stores are making record breaking profits, why are service workers paid so little? If medical costs are so high, why aren't nurses and nurse aids making more? It's not rocket science. People aren't getting paid for the value of their labor, and productivity has rocketed up while wages have stagnated for decades. Your plumber charges 200 an hour and doesn't make anywhere near that much, because they work for a company who profits massively off their labor and exploits him as far as the law and supply and demand will allow.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > plumber charges 200 an hour and doesn't make anywhere near that much, because they work for a company who profits massively off their labor and exploits him as far as the law and supply and demand will allow Do most plumbers responding to house calls work for an employer? There aren't many economies of scale in that work.
dimator 4y ago
Older generation complains about newer generation's work ethic and goals, news at 11. Seriously, this has been done since forever, and it's such a tired trope. And why the hell shouldn't they want to be influencers? They're responding to the world they've been handed. Why is that different than "I want to be an NBA player", or rock and roll singer before that, or baseball player before that? Gen Z will be just fine, even if Gen X doesn't understand how.
- sometimeshuman 4y ago
  This is the first comment I have read where "Gen X" is dragged into the generational culture war. The generic brand of that generation made me think it would fly under the radar and we'd break this tired pattern.
  - karakot 4y ago
    IMO, all generational labeling is just for clicks and rage (which brings more clicks).
- pleb_nz 4y ago
  Generations isnt even real. People change year on year little by little not once in 20 years. It's a gradual shift not some shift that happens new years eve one year.
  - prottog 4y ago
    The pace of change quickens due to technology enabling our interconnected world today.
  - Raidion 4y ago
    It's a gradual shift that's no so gradual when looking at the block of population. Gen X are those that didn't have any digital connectivity while growing up. Millennials grew up connected through text/chat/email/very early social media, but without being constantly connected to the internet. Gen Z has grown up being connected and with information and entertainment available the time. Generations share a "core" of experiences that happen during some of the most impactful years of their lives. First geopolitical event I remember was 9/11. For some it was the Great Recession or COVID. Those big events end up exerting a lot of influence on age groups. I think Generations can be overused in the sense that it's used like a monolith when it's not. The clickbaity "Generation Z doesn't want to work" is actually the less clickbaity "Many in Generation Z find working a less attractive option because of these specific shared experience/values..."
cudgy 4y ago
Try crawling around in a 2 foot high crawl space amongst spiders and snakes while ripping out old, stinky, dripping plumbing with a sabre saw or arc welder and tell yourself it is not “back breaking” or dangerous.
- Mezzie 4y ago
  Also bonus asbestos and fibreglass! (Yes, obviously wear protective equipment, but that shit travels and gets on things.)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
MrFantastic 4y ago
Pipe fitters tend to have really strong hands because the pipes are heavy and awkward. Working with awkward heavy things tends to wear out your joints
asdff 4y ago
I'd be curious what your generation said they'd want to be when surveyed. I'm sure during the height of beatlemania, many people wanted to be a rockstar too.
jethro_tell 4y ago
There was no one with dreams of being a rockstar or actor before influencers. There have always been a good chunk of kids that want to do as little as possible and then they tend to figure something out or wash out. This isn't new or news.

unethical_ban 4y ago

I see this line about kids wanting to be influencers. Is there a credible source? And is this any different than them wanting to be a rock star, movie star, etc.? Most who have this hairbrained dream can fail quickly and hopefully with minimal cost or embarrassment and move on with their lives.

nullsense 4y ago
My 7 year old routinely tells me he is going to be a YouTuber. I routinely remind him about power law distributions. So far he has made 2 YouTube channels with a handful of videos each and even less subscribers. I can't recall if it was for his 6th or 7th birthday but he had been talking a lot about wanting his own "merch", so I asked him what kind of design would he put on his "merch" and he told me what he wanted. I whipped one up on a t-shirt making site and got it for him for his birthday. He still wears it and still refers to it as his "merch". I think it's mostly harmless and of course most kids will grow out of it. It's definitely like wanting to be a rockstar, but I think the scale is larger and the barrier to entry so much lower that they seem much more convinced it's actually a viable option than what I thought being a rockstar was when I was a kid. My guess is for many of them it will be a second "wait, Santa isn't real?" moment when they get a bit older and realize that power law distributions are a thing and that's just how it is. Followed by fun times reminiscing about it with each other as adults.
- silisili 4y ago
  I think this comment is the first time I've realized how out of touch I may have become with the world. I had no idea that kids wants to be influencers and Youtubers instead of say, rock stars or sports stars. In a way I find it a little sad, as a reminder humans keep getting more isolated with tech. Where 30 years ago we wanted people cheering us on, chanting our name, etc... people now seem to desire views, likes, and whatnot. I'm not saying one is better than the other, it's just really hard for my brain to process as I don't understand it.

giraffe_lady 4y ago

Who do you think unloads the pipes from the truck, carries them up the stairs or drags them into the crawlspaces on their knees? I've never met a plumber over 50 who didn't have chronic pain in their back, shoulders or knees. > My opinion is that younger generations have been brought up in a world where they don't need to take personal responsibility or ever get their hands dirty. An opinion as old as recorded history at least. It wasn't novel or insightful when Horace said it in 40BC and it isn't now.

bryanlarsen 4y ago

The median income for a plumber is $50k, only 10% make above $91k. https://insights.workwave.com/industry/plumbing-electrical/plumber-salary/ https://insights.workwave.com/industry/plumbing-electrical/p... 6-figure incomes for plumbers are rare.

megaman821 4y ago
Where is all the money people paying tradespeople going? If I need any plumbing work done it costs me $200 an hour or more. Even with overhead and expenses, 10 hours a week gets you more than $50k a year. Twenty years ago my grandfather was a marine plumber and made $200k a year. How many apprentices and part-time plumber are in these datasets?
- falcolas 4y ago
  Same places it always has? Insurance, materials, taxes, wages, profits.
- joecot 4y ago
  If retail stores are making record breaking profits, why are service workers paid so little? If medical costs are so high, why aren't nurses and nurse aids making more? It's not rocket science. People aren't getting paid for the value of their labor, and productivity has rocketed up while wages have stagnated for decades. Your plumber charges 200 an hour and doesn't make anywhere near that much, because they work for a company who profits massively off their labor and exploits him as far as the law and supply and demand will allow.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > plumber charges 200 an hour and doesn't make anywhere near that much, because they work for a company who profits massively off their labor and exploits him as far as the law and supply and demand will allow Do most plumbers responding to house calls work for an employer? There aren't many economies of scale in that work.

dimator 4y ago

Older generation complains about newer generation's work ethic and goals, news at 11. Seriously, this has been done since forever, and it's such a tired trope. And why the hell shouldn't they want to be influencers? They're responding to the world they've been handed. Why is that different than "I want to be an NBA player", or rock and roll singer before that, or baseball player before that? Gen Z will be just fine, even if Gen X doesn't understand how.

sometimeshuman 4y ago
This is the first comment I have read where "Gen X" is dragged into the generational culture war. The generic brand of that generation made me think it would fly under the radar and we'd break this tired pattern.
- karakot 4y ago
  IMO, all generational labeling is just for clicks and rage (which brings more clicks).
pleb_nz 4y ago
Generations isnt even real. People change year on year little by little not once in 20 years. It's a gradual shift not some shift that happens new years eve one year.
- prottog 4y ago
  The pace of change quickens due to technology enabling our interconnected world today.
- Raidion 4y ago
  It's a gradual shift that's no so gradual when looking at the block of population. Gen X are those that didn't have any digital connectivity while growing up. Millennials grew up connected through text/chat/email/very early social media, but without being constantly connected to the internet. Gen Z has grown up being connected and with information and entertainment available the time. Generations share a "core" of experiences that happen during some of the most impactful years of their lives. First geopolitical event I remember was 9/11. For some it was the Great Recession or COVID. Those big events end up exerting a lot of influence on age groups. I think Generations can be overused in the sense that it's used like a monolith when it's not. The clickbaity "Generation Z doesn't want to work" is actually the less clickbaity "Many in Generation Z find working a less attractive option because of these specific shared experience/values..."

cudgy 4y ago

Try crawling around in a 2 foot high crawl space amongst spiders and snakes while ripping out old, stinky, dripping plumbing with a sabre saw or arc welder and tell yourself it is not “back breaking” or dangerous.

Mezzie 4y ago
Also bonus asbestos and fibreglass! (Yes, obviously wear protective equipment, but that shit travels and gets on things.)

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

MrFantastic 4y ago

Pipe fitters tend to have really strong hands because the pipes are heavy and awkward. Working with awkward heavy things tends to wear out your joints

asdff 4y ago

I'd be curious what your generation said they'd want to be when surveyed. I'm sure during the height of beatlemania, many people wanted to be a rockstar too.

jethro_tell 4y ago

There was no one with dreams of being a rockstar or actor before influencers. There have always been a good chunk of kids that want to do as little as possible and then they tend to figure something out or wash out. This isn't new or news.