7 ms·

This is why Unions exist, no? Personally I sometimes wonder if I'd have enjoyed plumbing water more than plumbing code as I'd be meeting more people face to fa

by eddsh1994 4y ago

This is why Unions exist, no? Personally I sometimes wonder if I'd have enjoyed plumbing water more than plumbing code as I'd be meeting more people face to face, physically active, and it can get surprisingly complex (Berkeley, I think, offers a postgrad cert in plumbing buildings like sky scrapers which I saw advertised the other day)

Dig1t 4y ago
Yes! I grew up in California and my dad was a tradesperson. The union is the only reason my siblings and I had health insurance growing up. He never got any vacation time though, insurance was the main benefit of the union I think. Unfortunately, other states in the US have much weaker unions or none at all, especially in the south.
- eddsh1994 4y ago
  I am English but moved to the Bay Area a few years back and became friends with a union electrician from Alabama so this conversation comes up a little - it sounded like unions are supported in the south even if they look a little different. However I’m not American and am not certain about that at all :)
  - nebula8804 4y ago
    Does not seem like given a lot of the auto factories in the south are not unionized and multiple attempts to unionize them failed because the workers reject them. Then there was that famous failed attempt at unionizing the Amazon warehouse in Alabama? I think? Yeah there was a lot of shady stuff going down but it just does not look good among all the other failures.
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    States in the south have laws that neuter unions, and some that make unionizing for certain fields/roles illegal. Unions might exist, but they might not have the same teeth they'd have in states with friendlier organizing laws.
    - Bloating 4y ago
      Right to Work laws allow employees to make an individual choice whether to join a union in a unionized shop.
      - heavyset_go 4y ago
        No one is forced to take a union job if they don't want to, those same laws break private contracts between unions and employers and force unions to represent non-dues paying employees.
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UncleMeat 4y ago
Yes. My brother in law lives in SC where unionization and labor protection is especially weak. I don't think that the balance of power is going to shift away from the bosses and towards him any time soon.
jfengel 4y ago
Probably not. Maybe you just really like people, but in a lot of trades, the people you meet are grumpy. They don't want to meet you; they just want their problem solved. Either they're building a new thing (and trying to meet an aggressive schedule... and are probably behind by the time they bring in the plumbers) or repairing an old thing (and dealing with people who are cranky that the thing failed). It's probably not as bad as tech support, where you can guarantee that the person on the other end of the phone is angry. But it's probably at least as bad as retail, and nobody ever says "I love meeting people so I'll go handle cash from strangers". I know that there are extroverts in the world who get a charge out of meeting new people every day. And there's a big bonus to not sitting in a chair in front of a screen, especially if you're one of those. But I've got a feeling you're a lot happier with coding-level salaries and meeting strangers after you clock out.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  And you'll have clients losing their minds that their plumber charges ~$100/hr for "simple" things that the client can't or won't do themselves.
peruvian 4y ago
Tech people always say this but forget that being a plumber means being on their knees wading thru poop water and likely being unable to work when you reach a certain, fairly young age. I get it, trades are important, but let's not glamorize them.
- jonatron 4y ago
  Not all countries have toilets that block as easily as American / Canadian toilets. So wading through dirty water is less likely in the UK for example.
  - aksss 4y ago
    Well, being an outhouse carpenter sucks too!
- eddsh1994 4y ago
  I have done far worse than wade through poop water on my knees when I worked as a teenager on a paintball site / as a rifleman in the army! But to each their own :)
  - brianwawok 4y ago
    Wading through poorly made npm packages with no docs is not that far from literal poop water. Maybe harder to wash off in a shower.
- dinkumthinkum 4y ago
  Nothing against them but I think glamorizing trades seems like a kind of virtue signal.
  - eddsh1994 4y ago
    I have no issue glamorizing potentially six figure salaries that are useful to society! Personally I view software as a trade with a bubble salary range atm, but think it’ll pivot towards a trade over the next decade or two.
colechristensen 4y ago
The people I’ve known in trade unions locally spent a lot of time not working waiting on the bench for the next job. The work was much closer to being a short term contractor not at all in control of finding new work.
nemo44x 4y ago
There's plenty of tradesmen in unions. And plenty of other tradesmen willing to undercut them.

Dig1t 4y ago

Yes! I grew up in California and my dad was a tradesperson. The union is the only reason my siblings and I had health insurance growing up. He never got any vacation time though, insurance was the main benefit of the union I think. Unfortunately, other states in the US have much weaker unions or none at all, especially in the south.

eddsh1994 4y ago
I am English but moved to the Bay Area a few years back and became friends with a union electrician from Alabama so this conversation comes up a little - it sounded like unions are supported in the south even if they look a little different. However I’m not American and am not certain about that at all :)
- nebula8804 4y ago
  Does not seem like given a lot of the auto factories in the south are not unionized and multiple attempts to unionize them failed because the workers reject them. Then there was that famous failed attempt at unionizing the Amazon warehouse in Alabama? I think? Yeah there was a lot of shady stuff going down but it just does not look good among all the other failures.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  States in the south have laws that neuter unions, and some that make unionizing for certain fields/roles illegal. Unions might exist, but they might not have the same teeth they'd have in states with friendlier organizing laws.
  - Bloating 4y ago
    Right to Work laws allow employees to make an individual choice whether to join a union in a unionized shop.
    - heavyset_go 4y ago
      No one is forced to take a union job if they don't want to, those same laws break private contracts between unions and employers and force unions to represent non-dues paying employees.
- deleted 4y ago
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UncleMeat 4y ago

Yes. My brother in law lives in SC where unionization and labor protection is especially weak. I don't think that the balance of power is going to shift away from the bosses and towards him any time soon.

jfengel 4y ago

Probably not. Maybe you just really like people, but in a lot of trades, the people you meet are grumpy. They don't want to meet you; they just want their problem solved. Either they're building a new thing (and trying to meet an aggressive schedule... and are probably behind by the time they bring in the plumbers) or repairing an old thing (and dealing with people who are cranky that the thing failed). It's probably not as bad as tech support, where you can guarantee that the person on the other end of the phone is angry. But it's probably at least as bad as retail, and nobody ever says "I love meeting people so I'll go handle cash from strangers". I know that there are extroverts in the world who get a charge out of meeting new people every day. And there's a big bonus to not sitting in a chair in front of a screen, especially if you're one of those. But I've got a feeling you're a lot happier with coding-level salaries and meeting strangers after you clock out.

heavyset_go 4y ago
And you'll have clients losing their minds that their plumber charges ~$100/hr for "simple" things that the client can't or won't do themselves.

peruvian 4y ago

Tech people always say this but forget that being a plumber means being on their knees wading thru poop water and likely being unable to work when you reach a certain, fairly young age. I get it, trades are important, but let's not glamorize them.

jonatron 4y ago
Not all countries have toilets that block as easily as American / Canadian toilets. So wading through dirty water is less likely in the UK for example.
- aksss 4y ago
  Well, being an outhouse carpenter sucks too!
eddsh1994 4y ago
I have done far worse than wade through poop water on my knees when I worked as a teenager on a paintball site / as a rifleman in the army! But to each their own :)
- brianwawok 4y ago
  Wading through poorly made npm packages with no docs is not that far from literal poop water. Maybe harder to wash off in a shower.
dinkumthinkum 4y ago
Nothing against them but I think glamorizing trades seems like a kind of virtue signal.
- eddsh1994 4y ago
  I have no issue glamorizing potentially six figure salaries that are useful to society! Personally I view software as a trade with a bubble salary range atm, but think it’ll pivot towards a trade over the next decade or two.

colechristensen 4y ago

The people I’ve known in trade unions locally spent a lot of time not working waiting on the bench for the next job. The work was much closer to being a short term contractor not at all in control of finding new work.

nemo44x 4y ago

There's plenty of tradesmen in unions. And plenty of other tradesmen willing to undercut them.