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> I think Apple can make an even better car than Tesla if they build the hardware and software like their phones and computers. I'm not sure outsourcing manufa

> I think Apple can make an even better car than Tesla if they build the hardware and software like their phones and computers. I'm not sure outsourcing manufacturing and focusing on design works in auto industry - but could be wrong.

jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
"Outsourcing" is a very poor way to describe Apple's supply chain. They are deeply integrated. For example Apple owns most of the CNCs and similar equipment used. Having tight control over all logistics is core to Apple's strategy of huge global product launches.
multiplegeorges 4y ago
Fisker is trying it and should have a car to market next year. They've been hitting all their targets. They outsource their manufacturing to Magna Steyr.
papruapap 4y ago
like how they outsourced their chips, right? They only designed a square with a M1 stamped on it.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
hef19898 4y ago
It does, Magna's whole business model is based around that.
dylan604 4y ago
Huh? The auto industry is famous for outsourcing to plants outside of the country and bring the final cars back in to the country. They are also famous for manufacturing the parts from all of the world, and then assembling them in another country. Apple's "Designed in Cupertino, assembled in ___" is the same thing.
elil17 4y ago
You’re wrong. Auto manufacturers source parts from a huge variety of outside manufacturers. Auto manufacturers: 1) manage supply chain (hardest part) 2) spec parts (establish quality metrics, change small aspects of design) 3) come up with car concepts 4) assemble parts certain components (e.g. weld the frame, install all the premade parts) They are not building or designing every component in a car - not even close.
- moonchrome 4y ago
  I mean what do you expect - for them to build everything down to a screw in-house in order to do manufacturing ? Final assembly, fit and finish - those are very important things on high end cars - and as Tesla demonstrated - not that easy to do even when you're flush with cash. Apple outsources all of it's production - I'd be surprised if they can get premium car assembly from Foxconn model when Tesla is still having issues.
  - elil17 4y ago
    Final assembly, fit and finish aren't really the key part of what they're doing, though. There's no reason they can't outsource that too.
  - badpun 4y ago
    It’s not that they don’t build. They don’t even design a lot of the car components (incl. gear boxes, abs, traction control etc). They’re bough from OEM companies, who design and manufacture them.
  - jonathankoren 4y ago
    > Final assembly, fit and finish - those are very important things on high end cars - and as Tesla demonstrated - not that easy to do even when you're flush with cash Is it that hard though? The initial build problems came from ignoring industry experience about trying to automate final assembly — a step that very manufacture had tried and failed to do before. No shame in trying it, maybe industrial robotic control have improved since then, but you usually don’t test such a thing in your assembly lines. After Tesla ripped out the robots, I don’t know what their problem was beyond poor training and line management. Putting doors on straight — let alone with matching colors — for over a hundred years. If it’s really hard to physically build a car, we’d see similar massive faults from Rivian and Lucid, but I’m unaware of any.
citrus1330 4y ago
Even if that were true, you don't think Apple is capable of building out manufacturing capabilities?
Server6 4y ago
Foxconn is designing an EV platform specifically for this. https://www.foxconn.com/en-us/products-and-services/event-highlights/strategy-blueprint/electric-vehicle-platform https://www.foxconn.com/en-us/products-and-services/event-hi... We'll see if it works out. Seeing as how they're Apple's biggest partner I'd be surprised if Apple one day doesn't design a car. EV's are simpler, eventually they'll all be fast and have 500 mile ranges. The platform won't matter, so what sells the car? Design.
mprev 4y ago
Manga Steyr builds Jaguars, BMWs, Fiskers, and others under just this model.

jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago

"Outsourcing" is a very poor way to describe Apple's supply chain. They are deeply integrated. For example Apple owns most of the CNCs and similar equipment used. Having tight control over all logistics is core to Apple's strategy of huge global product launches.

multiplegeorges 4y ago

Fisker is trying it and should have a car to market next year. They've been hitting all their targets. They outsource their manufacturing to Magna Steyr.

papruapap 4y ago

like how they outsourced their chips, right? They only designed a square with a M1 stamped on it.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

hef19898 4y ago

It does, Magna's whole business model is based around that.

dylan604 4y ago

Huh? The auto industry is famous for outsourcing to plants outside of the country and bring the final cars back in to the country. They are also famous for manufacturing the parts from all of the world, and then assembling them in another country. Apple's "Designed in Cupertino, assembled in ___" is the same thing.

elil17 4y ago

You’re wrong. Auto manufacturers source parts from a huge variety of outside manufacturers. Auto manufacturers: 1) manage supply chain (hardest part) 2) spec parts (establish quality metrics, change small aspects of design) 3) come up with car concepts 4) assemble parts certain components (e.g. weld the frame, install all the premade parts) They are not building or designing every component in a car - not even close.

moonchrome 4y ago
I mean what do you expect - for them to build everything down to a screw in-house in order to do manufacturing ? Final assembly, fit and finish - those are very important things on high end cars - and as Tesla demonstrated - not that easy to do even when you're flush with cash. Apple outsources all of it's production - I'd be surprised if they can get premium car assembly from Foxconn model when Tesla is still having issues.
- elil17 4y ago
  Final assembly, fit and finish aren't really the key part of what they're doing, though. There's no reason they can't outsource that too.
- badpun 4y ago
  It’s not that they don’t build. They don’t even design a lot of the car components (incl. gear boxes, abs, traction control etc). They’re bough from OEM companies, who design and manufacture them.
- jonathankoren 4y ago
  > Final assembly, fit and finish - those are very important things on high end cars - and as Tesla demonstrated - not that easy to do even when you're flush with cash Is it that hard though? The initial build problems came from ignoring industry experience about trying to automate final assembly — a step that very manufacture had tried and failed to do before. No shame in trying it, maybe industrial robotic control have improved since then, but you usually don’t test such a thing in your assembly lines. After Tesla ripped out the robots, I don’t know what their problem was beyond poor training and line management. Putting doors on straight — let alone with matching colors — for over a hundred years. If it’s really hard to physically build a car, we’d see similar massive faults from Rivian and Lucid, but I’m unaware of any.

citrus1330 4y ago

Even if that were true, you don't think Apple is capable of building out manufacturing capabilities?

Server6 4y ago

Foxconn is designing an EV platform specifically for this. https://www.foxconn.com/en-us/products-and-services/event-highlights/strategy-blueprint/electric-vehicle-platform https://www.foxconn.com/en-us/products-and-services/event-hi... We'll see if it works out. Seeing as how they're Apple's biggest partner I'd be surprised if Apple one day doesn't design a car. EV's are simpler, eventually they'll all be fast and have 500 mile ranges. The platform won't matter, so what sells the car? Design.

mprev 4y ago

Manga Steyr builds Jaguars, BMWs, Fiskers, and others under just this model.