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"Our salespeople all estimated that they were spending about 20% of their time just keeping track of what money was due them. There was constant horse trading."
by paulhauggis 15y ago
"Our salespeople all estimated that they were spending about 20% of their time just keeping track of what money was due them. There was constant horse trading."
I had to laugh at this. How is this that difficult? An excel spreadsheet with a few columns might only take a 20-30 minutes per day (if that). If it's based on a percentage, excel can automatically calculate that based on a column. I am a re-seller for a few products online and this is exactly how I calculate it. I have another sheet that tallies all of my monthly revenue. I can't imagine it being much different when selling services or products for a company like Fog Creek. You could also keep track of all names/companies, etc. here.
I'm going to offer another perspective: Fog creek basically just gave themselves a pay raise. Rather than giving salespeople a cut of the sales, they now are paying them a flat-fee.
Some people may like this because now they have consistent income. However, it's much less than what they could potentially earn. If I was a salesperson there, I would quit. I would like to see the results of this in 1 year (or 5 years). I suspect they will switch back to a commission-based system within that time-frame.
It reminds me of my brother's job. He used to work as a bike builder at a local shop here in PA. He used to get paid $10/bike and he would build many bikes per night. They switched it over one day to $11/hour and he then had no incentive to build as many bikes (and he admits didn't doesn't work as hard..because he was going to get paid the same regardless). Most people are like this.
In a way, it's like converting from free-market capitalism (you have no limit to your success) to communism (everyone is now equal).
They do this to developers all the time. Every job I've ever had has been based on salary. This sounds great, until you realize that the employer now has no incentive to keep you within 40 hours/week.
At one company, the new COO came in and announced that new working hours were an hour earlier and half-an-hour later. Everyone working there was on salary, so we essentially all got a pay-cut.
- ceejayoz 15y ago> It reminds me of my brother's job. He used to work as a bike builder at a local shop here in PA. He used to get paid $10/bike and he would build many bikes per night. They switched it over one day to $11/hour and he then had no incentive to build as many bikes (and he admits didn't doesn't work as hard..because he was going to get paid the same regardless). Most people are like this. Well, that was dumb. Ditching commission doesn't mean performance can't be rewarded, via bonuses for good performers, generous raises when merited, etc.
- jacques_chester 15y ago> Fog creek basically just gave themselves a pay raise. Rather than giving salespeople a cut of the sales, they now are paying them a flat-fee. Fog Creek have taken on the sales risk entirely from the sales staff. It's not a one-way trade.
- tptacek 15y agoCompetent direct sales people choose that career because they are good at handling that risk and like the boost in compensation they get from it. The guy who's content with the base salary is almost the definition of a sales account manager who isn't working out.
- jacques_chester 15y agoSure, but my point was that it's not a one-way exchange of value. The sales staff may be paid less, but they get lower risk in return. Whether they like that is up to them.
- tptacek 15y agoBut I'm not making a moral judgement. Pay your sales team whatever you want. Pay them minimum wage; for the people who accept the job, you're still doing them a service. My point is that you will get bad salespeople by selecting for the ones willing to take smooth, low returns over commissions.
- jacques_chester 15y ago> But I'm not making a moral judgement. I was addressing the parent comment to mine, which did seem to be making a value judgement. > My point is that you will get bad salespeople by selecting for the ones willing to take smooth, low returns over commissions. Can you back this up with figures, or is it your expert opinion?
- tptacek 15y ago