4 ms·

Having a Rimworld mod that removes black characters is not enough to warrant a platform ban, in my opinion.

smcl 4y ago
I think if you’re doing racist stuff, you should expect that the owner of the platform you’re doing it on will probably not like that and find a way to kick you off. The user is probably not a card carrying neo-nazi, but I’m sorry this is 2023, how on Earth can people still expect not to get called for juvenile 4chan-level trolling like this?
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Because no one should care. Just fully ignore them, do not engage with trolls or people whose politics you don't care about. Maybe we should instead ban those who call out this stuff or describe it in malicious ways...
  - smcl 4y ago
    GitHub will have removed this because they don't want to be seen hosting racist shit on their platform. They don't want that because as it turns out the vast majority of the population isn't on board with racism, so not doing so would empower their competitors, hurt their brand and affect their bottom line. It's the same with Disney (the "oh a black little mermaid!?" stuff) and all the other the other ultimately banal things that get people frothing at the mouth about corporations going "woke" - it's not a conspiracy, it's not about politics, it's simply bad business to appear welcoming to hateful or bigoted people. That said, I personally think it should be difficult to be racist, homophobic, transphobic and the like online. I'm not engaging in debates, posting outraged tweetstorms or trying to get anyone doxxed/fired/cancelled when I see some anonymous edgelord throwing the n-bomb around or calling for LGBTQ+ friends to be killed. I'm just going to quietly report the post and move on.
    - ilyt 4y ago
      Ye I don't see anyone quitting github over some random rimworld mod. I claim bullshit on that People still buy Nestle and they do far worse shit. People have no problem supporting corporations that do business with racist regimes. Claiming somehow people (other than some virtue signalling) would start migrating in droves to gitlab because there is a mod for rimworld is insane.
      - smcl 4y ago
        No you're right, there's not going to be a mass exodus because of one mod. However if GitHub became known as the 8chan of git where anything goes, that would likely cause a slow decline that would be difficult to turn around. The way you prevent that is by drawing a line and saying that if someone crosses that line they're gone. I guess they've deemed this user to have crossed the line. Whenever I see "virtue signalling" or "free speech" mentioned regarding tech companies like GitHub, Facebook, Twitter etc it's usually someone pretending they don't understand how companies work (and ironically doing their own little form of virtue signalling). Companies want to make money. You don't make money by pissing off the population. GitHub seem to have decided that allowing a user they've deemed as questionable is going to piss off more people than kicking that user off. If you don't like it and want to exercise your freedom of speech and/or signal that you're more virtuous than the rest of us then you are welcome to self-host or try out GitLab, BitBucket, sr.ht or CodeBerg.
        ilyt 4y ago
        Right but proper reaction to that is sending a message of "hey this repo breaks TOS because X Y and Z". You get the author chance to explain (if it is genuine misunderstanding, which will happen just due to culture differences and some moderators being, well, utterly incompetent) or fix their attitude, or remove their stuff. And in case of someone discussing it, like here, there is no need to guess and dig if the reason is given plainly by the moderator and points directly to the offense. Instead of speculation you get people look at it and just go "oh, yeah, that's fair" and move on. Yeetus deletus of everything, including unrelated things, because you broke TOS point which we don't even tell you how did you break it (which is pretty fucking common with any big tech, regardless of the reason, even if reason is just "triggered some heuristics in our system") is not okay.
  - jevgeni 4y ago
    That's great advice for anyone not directly affected /s
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
VCBullshitter 4y ago
This entire industry is built on exploiting both workers and consumers. If you think you have a say, you do not, unless your say does not impact the business model. The TOS is designed to be a middle finger to your face.
rgoulter 4y ago
I'm reminded of the quote: > "It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to which Baghdad could be given as a parameter." - Nathaniel Borenstein
pelasaco 4y ago
You should also mention there are two counterpart mods called "black only" and "yellow only"
- nightpool 4y ago
  Released at least two years after the original WhiteOnly mod: "Edit 26-mar-2020: finally, the injustice has been corrected: all races are welcome! You can choose the range of skin colors you want in mod settings." https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1518726337 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=15187...
  - dazilcher 4y ago
    Nah, BlackOnly was released on the same day [1] and YellowOnly two days later. They were merged in 2020 to WhiteOnly. [1] https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1518808526 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=15188...
    - nightpool 4y ago
      Thanks, this was unclear from the information the GP provided in another thread.
- toofy 4y ago
  they’re indicating on the posted reddit thread that the “black only” mod prohibits research forcing the black characters to stay primitive…
dfghytred 4y ago
[flagged]

smcl 4y ago

I think if you’re doing racist stuff, you should expect that the owner of the platform you’re doing it on will probably not like that and find a way to kick you off. The user is probably not a card carrying neo-nazi, but I’m sorry this is 2023, how on Earth can people still expect not to get called for juvenile 4chan-level trolling like this?

Ekaros 4y ago
Because no one should care. Just fully ignore them, do not engage with trolls or people whose politics you don't care about. Maybe we should instead ban those who call out this stuff or describe it in malicious ways...
- smcl 4y ago
  GitHub will have removed this because they don't want to be seen hosting racist shit on their platform. They don't want that because as it turns out the vast majority of the population isn't on board with racism, so not doing so would empower their competitors, hurt their brand and affect their bottom line. It's the same with Disney (the "oh a black little mermaid!?" stuff) and all the other the other ultimately banal things that get people frothing at the mouth about corporations going "woke" - it's not a conspiracy, it's not about politics, it's simply bad business to appear welcoming to hateful or bigoted people. That said, I personally think it should be difficult to be racist, homophobic, transphobic and the like online. I'm not engaging in debates, posting outraged tweetstorms or trying to get anyone doxxed/fired/cancelled when I see some anonymous edgelord throwing the n-bomb around or calling for LGBTQ+ friends to be killed. I'm just going to quietly report the post and move on.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    Ye I don't see anyone quitting github over some random rimworld mod. I claim bullshit on that People still buy Nestle and they do far worse shit. People have no problem supporting corporations that do business with racist regimes. Claiming somehow people (other than some virtue signalling) would start migrating in droves to gitlab because there is a mod for rimworld is insane.
    - smcl 4y ago
      No you're right, there's not going to be a mass exodus because of one mod. However if GitHub became known as the 8chan of git where anything goes, that would likely cause a slow decline that would be difficult to turn around. The way you prevent that is by drawing a line and saying that if someone crosses that line they're gone. I guess they've deemed this user to have crossed the line. Whenever I see "virtue signalling" or "free speech" mentioned regarding tech companies like GitHub, Facebook, Twitter etc it's usually someone pretending they don't understand how companies work (and ironically doing their own little form of virtue signalling). Companies want to make money. You don't make money by pissing off the population. GitHub seem to have decided that allowing a user they've deemed as questionable is going to piss off more people than kicking that user off. If you don't like it and want to exercise your freedom of speech and/or signal that you're more virtuous than the rest of us then you are welcome to self-host or try out GitLab, BitBucket, sr.ht or CodeBerg.
      - ilyt 4y ago
        Right but proper reaction to that is sending a message of "hey this repo breaks TOS because X Y and Z". You get the author chance to explain (if it is genuine misunderstanding, which will happen just due to culture differences and some moderators being, well, utterly incompetent) or fix their attitude, or remove their stuff. And in case of someone discussing it, like here, there is no need to guess and dig if the reason is given plainly by the moderator and points directly to the offense. Instead of speculation you get people look at it and just go "oh, yeah, that's fair" and move on. Yeetus deletus of everything, including unrelated things, because you broke TOS point which we don't even tell you how did you break it (which is pretty fucking common with any big tech, regardless of the reason, even if reason is just "triggered some heuristics in our system") is not okay.
- jevgeni 4y ago
  That's great advice for anyone not directly affected /s
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

VCBullshitter 4y ago

This entire industry is built on exploiting both workers and consumers. If you think you have a say, you do not, unless your say does not impact the business model. The TOS is designed to be a middle finger to your face.

rgoulter 4y ago

I'm reminded of the quote: > "It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to which Baghdad could be given as a parameter." - Nathaniel Borenstein

pelasaco 4y ago

You should also mention there are two counterpart mods called "black only" and "yellow only"

nightpool 4y ago
Released at least two years after the original WhiteOnly mod: "Edit 26-mar-2020: finally, the injustice has been corrected: all races are welcome! You can choose the range of skin colors you want in mod settings." https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1518726337 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=15187...
- dazilcher 4y ago
  Nah, BlackOnly was released on the same day [1] and YellowOnly two days later. They were merged in 2020 to WhiteOnly. [1] https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1518808526 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=15188...
  - nightpool 4y ago
    Thanks, this was unclear from the information the GP provided in another thread.
toofy 4y ago
they’re indicating on the posted reddit thread that the “black only” mod prohibits research forcing the black characters to stay primitive…

dfghytred 4y ago

[flagged]