3 ms·

I think that this is the paper mentioned in the linked article: An Upper Palaeolithic Proto-writing System and Phenological Calendar https://www.cambridge.org/

I think that this is the paper mentioned in the linked article: An Upper Palaeolithic Proto-writing System and Phenological Calendar https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cambridge-archaeological-journal/article/an-upper-palaeolithic-protowriting-system-and-phenological-calendar/6F2AD8A705888F2226FE857840B4FE19 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cambridge-archaeolog... The lead author is Bennett Bacon, corresponding to the "Ben Bacon" named in the BBC piece.

ahub 4y ago
That seem to be it. They talk about compiling a database of cave art. I'd love to access that !
- b112 4y ago
  Good sir! I have setup a nice collection for you, please visit my NFT page blah blah, heh. Can you imagine, scribbling on a cave wall, now your art is a NFT. Seem surreal, yet I bet someone is working on an NFT of that now.
gibolt 4y ago
The paper has a selection of images that convey the point much better than the article
philliphaydon 4y ago
Looking at these pictures my first thought was oh each line/dot must be like a full moon. But apparently it’s 1 line for each day? Edit: this is interesting. Gonna bookmark to read in full later.
bjackman 4y ago
Thanks! Much more interesting. Some details of the paper's claims that I enjoyed: - the system was stable over (i.e. their dataset covers) thousands of years - it has been formerly proposed that these markings represent lunar calendar data but not generally accepted by scholars. No further details on difference from their proposal or why the former proposal was rejected. - they hypothesise a lunar calendar that begins with spring. It just kinda fizzles out during winter when there are no particularly interesting "dates". hus it isn't disturbed by the lack of synchronization between lunar and solar cycles.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  >- it has been formerly proposed that these markings represent lunar calendar data but not generally accepted by scholars. No further details on difference from their proposal or why the former proposal was rejected. The paper actually discusses this in detail. The difference between this and prior lunar proposals is that they hypothesize: 1) what is being counted in lunar months 2) when the system is counting from 3) it supports this with a large amount of contemporary data on animal behavior. If correct, this is an amazing demonstration of data transfer. It decodes basically 850 sets of observational animal behavior data recorded 30,000 on animal behavior years ago. It is like finding the notebooks of ancient scientists for an entire region.
  - bjackman 4y ago
    Oh right, I didn't pick up that those were the things that were unique. But yeah that makes sense!
hoseja 4y ago
Hm, I see no discussion about left-to-right vs right-to-left positioning of the ordinal Y in the (horizontal) sequences. Is left-to-right taken for granted?
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  Doesn't look like it. if you have a hypothesis, write it up and publish it
- yodon 4y ago
  Hopefully someone else can find more context in the paper on left-to-right vs right-to-left sequencing (or animal-facing-direction or towards-the-head(?)-of-the-animal or ? sequencing). The most relevant quote in the paper I could find is >Figure 4 presents the position of <Y> in sequences, by analytical taxa. To determine the position of <Y>, we assumed that sequences were oriented in the same way as their associated animal depictions, i.e. with the animal the right way up. But I don't see how to get a directionality from that quote.

ahub 4y ago

That seem to be it. They talk about compiling a database of cave art. I'd love to access that !

b112 4y ago
Good sir! I have setup a nice collection for you, please visit my NFT page blah blah, heh. Can you imagine, scribbling on a cave wall, now your art is a NFT. Seem surreal, yet I bet someone is working on an NFT of that now.

gibolt 4y ago

The paper has a selection of images that convey the point much better than the article

philliphaydon 4y ago

Looking at these pictures my first thought was oh each line/dot must be like a full moon. But apparently it’s 1 line for each day? Edit: this is interesting. Gonna bookmark to read in full later.

bjackman 4y ago

Thanks! Much more interesting. Some details of the paper's claims that I enjoyed: - the system was stable over (i.e. their dataset covers) thousands of years - it has been formerly proposed that these markings represent lunar calendar data but not generally accepted by scholars. No further details on difference from their proposal or why the former proposal was rejected. - they hypothesise a lunar calendar that begins with spring. It just kinda fizzles out during winter when there are no particularly interesting "dates". hus it isn't disturbed by the lack of synchronization between lunar and solar cycles.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
>- it has been formerly proposed that these markings represent lunar calendar data but not generally accepted by scholars. No further details on difference from their proposal or why the former proposal was rejected. The paper actually discusses this in detail. The difference between this and prior lunar proposals is that they hypothesize: 1) what is being counted in lunar months 2) when the system is counting from 3) it supports this with a large amount of contemporary data on animal behavior. If correct, this is an amazing demonstration of data transfer. It decodes basically 850 sets of observational animal behavior data recorded 30,000 on animal behavior years ago. It is like finding the notebooks of ancient scientists for an entire region.
- bjackman 4y ago
  Oh right, I didn't pick up that those were the things that were unique. But yeah that makes sense!

hoseja 4y ago

Hm, I see no discussion about left-to-right vs right-to-left positioning of the ordinal Y in the (horizontal) sequences. Is left-to-right taken for granted?

s1artibartfast 4y ago
Doesn't look like it. if you have a hypothesis, write it up and publish it
yodon 4y ago
Hopefully someone else can find more context in the paper on left-to-right vs right-to-left sequencing (or animal-facing-direction or towards-the-head(?)-of-the-animal or ? sequencing). The most relevant quote in the paper I could find is >Figure 4 presents the position of <Y> in sequences, by analytical taxa. To determine the position of <Y>, we assumed that sequences were oriented in the same way as their associated animal depictions, i.e. with the animal the right way up. But I don't see how to get a directionality from that quote.