5 ms·

I loved this part. It's not new but nicely put: > As you and know very well, this sort of widespread interest can become a self fullfilling phenomenon, because

I loved this part. It's not new but nicely put: > As you and know very well, this sort of widespread interest can become a self fullfilling phenomenon, because programmer attention creates programs. Some of these will be successful and that only fuels more participation in the phenomenon. I hope this is what's happening with Rust. :) I also thought this paragraph just afterwards had an interesting point: > In the limit, they can make the web totally OS agnostic - but there will still be other things that motivate one platform versus another. This looks like it happened; but did/do people actually credit Sun for this? On the client side it was Netscape that broke MS' monopoly with Internet Explorer, but on the server side Java was and is still very popular with the business folks, so... does Nathan have a point here?

irrational 4y ago
> it was Netscape that broke MS' monopoly with Internet Explorer What do you mean by this? We used Netscape Navigator for quite a while before trying a version of IE.
- josephd79 4y ago
  Yes, Netscape took them to court, proved monopoly by then it was too late. Microsoft had already took over. Bundled IE with Windows (it was first an add on) and added a deal with Apple to include it in their OS. It was Chrome that tore it down. Which was a good thing and a bad thing.
  - irrational 4y ago
    From my recollection, it was Firefox that broke the IE stranglehold and then later Google released Chrome.
Beltalowda 4y ago
> On the client side it was Netscape that broke MS' monopoly with Internet Explorer What? Microsoft completely obliterated Netscape, which was dominant before IE. In the early 2000s IE had like ~95% market share. Later Mozilla Firefox turned that around, but only after they made the steaming pile of shit that was Netscape vaguely decent, which took a few years.
hnlmorg 4y ago
Internet Explorer dominated for years. Microsoft killed Netscape not the other way around. Mozilla helped with the downfall of IE but it was really Google that put the final nail in the coffin. As for backend, Microsoft had some systems running IIS and Apache can run on Windows Server too, but UNIX and Linux was always the dominant platform for web hosting. Java didn’t change anything there. Javas impact on Windows can be felt more with .NET, which started life as a direct competitor to Java, after Microsoft was taken to court for their own proprietary implementation of Java (if I recall that part correctly). There was a time when you’d have to select which Java engine you wanted your browser to use and Microsoft Java (or whatever it was called) and Sun Java weren’t fully compatible with each other.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  > which Java engine you wanted your browser to use and Microsoft Java (or whatever it was called) It was called JScript. It was released after JavaScript. I am a peaceful man; never been in a fight with anybody, and oppose the death penalty. The exception is that I think all the people responsible for this clusterfuck of names should be shot.
  - un_ess 4y ago
    jscript was JavaScript engine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JScript https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JScript J++ was a 'clone' of Java https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_J%2B%2B https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_J%2B%2B . Sun sued Microsoft, https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/sun-microsoft-settle-java-suit/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/sun-microsoft-settle... and that's how .Net was born ( with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_J_Sharp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_J_Sharp to ensure transition)
    - Beltalowda 4y ago
      Welp, it seems I misremembered how it all fitted together. It was a stressful time to be a non-MS user back then, so I blame Post-Microsoft-Stress-Disorder.

irrational 4y ago

> it was Netscape that broke MS' monopoly with Internet Explorer What do you mean by this? We used Netscape Navigator for quite a while before trying a version of IE.

josephd79 4y ago
Yes, Netscape took them to court, proved monopoly by then it was too late. Microsoft had already took over. Bundled IE with Windows (it was first an add on) and added a deal with Apple to include it in their OS. It was Chrome that tore it down. Which was a good thing and a bad thing.
- irrational 4y ago
  From my recollection, it was Firefox that broke the IE stranglehold and then later Google released Chrome.

Beltalowda 4y ago

> On the client side it was Netscape that broke MS' monopoly with Internet Explorer What? Microsoft completely obliterated Netscape, which was dominant before IE. In the early 2000s IE had like ~95% market share. Later Mozilla Firefox turned that around, but only after they made the steaming pile of shit that was Netscape vaguely decent, which took a few years.

hnlmorg 4y ago

Internet Explorer dominated for years. Microsoft killed Netscape not the other way around. Mozilla helped with the downfall of IE but it was really Google that put the final nail in the coffin. As for backend, Microsoft had some systems running IIS and Apache can run on Windows Server too, but UNIX and Linux was always the dominant platform for web hosting. Java didn’t change anything there. Javas impact on Windows can be felt more with .NET, which started life as a direct competitor to Java, after Microsoft was taken to court for their own proprietary implementation of Java (if I recall that part correctly). There was a time when you’d have to select which Java engine you wanted your browser to use and Microsoft Java (or whatever it was called) and Sun Java weren’t fully compatible with each other.

Beltalowda 4y ago
> which Java engine you wanted your browser to use and Microsoft Java (or whatever it was called) It was called JScript. It was released after JavaScript. I am a peaceful man; never been in a fight with anybody, and oppose the death penalty. The exception is that I think all the people responsible for this clusterfuck of names should be shot.
- un_ess 4y ago
  jscript was JavaScript engine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JScript https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JScript J++ was a 'clone' of Java https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_J%2B%2B https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_J%2B%2B . Sun sued Microsoft, https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/sun-microsoft-settle-java-suit/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/sun-microsoft-settle... and that's how .Net was born ( with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_J_Sharp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_J_Sharp to ensure transition)
  - Beltalowda 4y ago
    Welp, it seems I misremembered how it all fitted together. It was a stressful time to be a non-MS user back then, so I blame Post-Microsoft-Stress-Disorder.