5 ms·

Suing a company is typically not beneficial for the worker or ex worker. Unless the payout is greater than what remains of your lifetime earnings projections.

by mc32 4y ago

Suing a company is typically not beneficial for the worker or ex worker. Unless the payout is greater than what remains of your lifetime earnings projections. A person with litigious history carries a kind of scarlet letter around their neck. No one wants to risk being the next target. Think: would you want to bring on a cofounder who sued their previous cofounder? Maybe you would, but many would have second thoughts too.

CGamesPlay 4y ago
Why would the ex-worker disclose it? Are there many known cases of this happening? Also, I think founder- or exec-level employees probably have a different hiring experience than J Random Line Worker, regardless of past litigation history.
- mc32 4y ago
  A BG check would show that as they are public record. One option is to threaten a lawsuit and then hope to settle for a smaller amount.
  - BenFranklin100 4y ago
    That’s interesting, I didn’t know that. Is that the case if it was settled out of court? Often employee labor disputes are settled out of court if the lawsuit is less than $30-50K.
  - bhouston 4y ago
    As someone who has been sued and settled this didn’t affect anything, I still raised money, gained business partners and grew the business. Business disputes happen. In many ways suing or getting sued in business is like losing your virginity. It seems like a big deal before it happens the first time but then anfterward it isn’t a big deal and just stuff that happens. I feel you are spreading FUD to protect one of the richest guys in the world and telling little people who have been abused here to just take it.
htag 4y ago
A high profile situation like this might be a different case. If this is happening to many former employees, and it reaches class action, then there will be a lot of press about the subject. You wouldn't have to explain why you brought the lawsuit, and everyone would have an understanding of the situation. What's the point of being able to free to file a lawsuit if you practically can't? What would you think of someone that wouldn't fight for themselves when they were lied to and cheated?
- mc32 4y ago
  Class actions is a possibility and it’s viable but most of the money would go to law firms and not end up in your pocket anyhow, so it’d be more of a stick it to the man action than an action to receive monetary compensation.
  - crazysim 4y ago
    The man has a name.
  - bhouston 4y ago
    Most of the money does go to employees who sue their employers forrongful termination and similar. Do you have evidence to the contrary or are you just knee jerk defending Elon?
  - danaris 4y ago
    I would imagine there's a significant difference between a class action lawsuit on behalf of tens to hundreds of thousands of wronged customers, many of whom may not actually know they're part of the class, with a somewhat nebulous monetary damage value, and a class action lawsuit on behalf of hundreds to thousands of employees, all of whom know perfectly well they're part of the class, and where the monetary damage values per employee are both high and fairly clear.
BenFranklin100 4y ago
In many cases, potential future employers won’t be the wiser I would think. For example, some companies have a standard policy of not discussing past employee’s history. You have lost a reference however, which is often worth something.
wpietri 4y ago
I would absolutely hire somebody who sued Twitter for failing to pay what was owed. In a heartbeat. I like working with people with character; you can trust them to let you know when something isn't right. Similarly, I'd look very carefully at anybody who stayed at Twitter well into the Musk era. As I did people who were at Uber during the Travis era. Sometimes decent people have good reasons for working for bad execs. (E.g., I hear a lot of the SpaceX people see putting up with Musk as a necessary evil for getting to work on something they care so much about.) But sometimes they are clue-deficient or lack a moral core, and those people require too much close supervision for my tastes.
- klabb3 4y ago
  > Sometimes decent people have good reasons for working for bad execs. Yep. Don’t forget immigration, that can be a big reason to stay. There was this famous pic of Elon with the some of the remaining Twitter staff and let’s just say they looked quite international. Obviously SV is multicultural and you shouldn’t assume individual traits from appearance, but, for a group it’s somewhat reasonable to assume a fair amount of H1B hostages with a huge incentive to stay, especially in the current economic climate. Speaking as a former H1B holder.
  - wpietri 4y ago
    Oh yeah, totally. I recall one absolutely terrible place that was well-stocked with H1B holders because they would grimly put up with all the executive nonsense. They were not a talkative bunch, but I got the impression a number of them were just saving every dollar possible for a planned return home. Which I totally respected, but I still felt terrible for them.
  - amachefe 4y ago
    Saying people "looked quite international" is prejudicial You don't get a pass because Elon and Twitter happens to be involved. It is very unlikely if upto has of Twitter 2000+ employees are "H1B hostages", but I doubt that will serve your purpose
    - 4y ago
bhouston 4y ago
Successful people stand up for themselves, otherwise they will get taken of in life and business. You don’t want to be unstable, hysterical or sue over nothing but you want to stand up for your self in a consistent and thoughtful way. Of course you don’t want people standing up to you if you are trying to screw them over, but it that is just your self interest.
jakelazaroff 4y ago
I would simply not lay off half my workers and then fail to pay the severance that I promised and legally owe them.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> A person with litigious history carries a kind of scarlet letter around their neck. No one wants to risk You are advocating the mindset of a medieval serf, how dare little people stand up for themselves and defy the baron?
roguecoder 4y ago
Did their previous cofounder fuck them over? Because I sure as fuck want a cofounder who will be willing to sue whoever fucks us over, whereas I don't intend to fuck anyone over so it would be zero risk to me. Someone who is too worried about what Musk fanboys think of them to go after what they are owed would make a terrible founder.

by mc32 4y ago

CGamesPlay 4y ago

Why would the ex-worker disclose it? Are there many known cases of this happening? Also, I think founder- or exec-level employees probably have a different hiring experience than J Random Line Worker, regardless of past litigation history.

mc32 4y ago
A BG check would show that as they are public record. One option is to threaten a lawsuit and then hope to settle for a smaller amount.
- BenFranklin100 4y ago
  That’s interesting, I didn’t know that. Is that the case if it was settled out of court? Often employee labor disputes are settled out of court if the lawsuit is less than $30-50K.
- bhouston 4y ago
  As someone who has been sued and settled this didn’t affect anything, I still raised money, gained business partners and grew the business. Business disputes happen. In many ways suing or getting sued in business is like losing your virginity. It seems like a big deal before it happens the first time but then anfterward it isn’t a big deal and just stuff that happens. I feel you are spreading FUD to protect one of the richest guys in the world and telling little people who have been abused here to just take it.

htag 4y ago

A high profile situation like this might be a different case. If this is happening to many former employees, and it reaches class action, then there will be a lot of press about the subject. You wouldn't have to explain why you brought the lawsuit, and everyone would have an understanding of the situation. What's the point of being able to free to file a lawsuit if you practically can't? What would you think of someone that wouldn't fight for themselves when they were lied to and cheated?

mc32 4y ago
Class actions is a possibility and it’s viable but most of the money would go to law firms and not end up in your pocket anyhow, so it’d be more of a stick it to the man action than an action to receive monetary compensation.
- crazysim 4y ago
  The man has a name.
- bhouston 4y ago
  Most of the money does go to employees who sue their employers forrongful termination and similar. Do you have evidence to the contrary or are you just knee jerk defending Elon?
- danaris 4y ago
  I would imagine there's a significant difference between a class action lawsuit on behalf of tens to hundreds of thousands of wronged customers, many of whom may not actually know they're part of the class, with a somewhat nebulous monetary damage value, and a class action lawsuit on behalf of hundreds to thousands of employees, all of whom know perfectly well they're part of the class, and where the monetary damage values per employee are both high and fairly clear.

BenFranklin100 4y ago

In many cases, potential future employers won’t be the wiser I would think. For example, some companies have a standard policy of not discussing past employee’s history. You have lost a reference however, which is often worth something.

wpietri 4y ago

I would absolutely hire somebody who sued Twitter for failing to pay what was owed. In a heartbeat. I like working with people with character; you can trust them to let you know when something isn't right. Similarly, I'd look very carefully at anybody who stayed at Twitter well into the Musk era. As I did people who were at Uber during the Travis era. Sometimes decent people have good reasons for working for bad execs. (E.g., I hear a lot of the SpaceX people see putting up with Musk as a necessary evil for getting to work on something they care so much about.) But sometimes they are clue-deficient or lack a moral core, and those people require too much close supervision for my tastes.

klabb3 4y ago
> Sometimes decent people have good reasons for working for bad execs. Yep. Don’t forget immigration, that can be a big reason to stay. There was this famous pic of Elon with the some of the remaining Twitter staff and let’s just say they looked quite international. Obviously SV is multicultural and you shouldn’t assume individual traits from appearance, but, for a group it’s somewhat reasonable to assume a fair amount of H1B hostages with a huge incentive to stay, especially in the current economic climate. Speaking as a former H1B holder.
- wpietri 4y ago
  Oh yeah, totally. I recall one absolutely terrible place that was well-stocked with H1B holders because they would grimly put up with all the executive nonsense. They were not a talkative bunch, but I got the impression a number of them were just saving every dollar possible for a planned return home. Which I totally respected, but I still felt terrible for them.
- amachefe 4y ago
  Saying people "looked quite international" is prejudicial You don't get a pass because Elon and Twitter happens to be involved. It is very unlikely if upto has of Twitter 2000+ employees are "H1B hostages", but I doubt that will serve your purpose
  - 4y ago

bhouston 4y ago

Successful people stand up for themselves, otherwise they will get taken of in life and business. You don’t want to be unstable, hysterical or sue over nothing but you want to stand up for your self in a consistent and thoughtful way. Of course you don’t want people standing up to you if you are trying to screw them over, but it that is just your self interest.

jakelazaroff 4y ago

I would simply not lay off half my workers and then fail to pay the severance that I promised and legally owe them.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

> A person with litigious history carries a kind of scarlet letter around their neck. No one wants to risk You are advocating the mindset of a medieval serf, how dare little people stand up for themselves and defy the baron?

roguecoder 4y ago

Did their previous cofounder fuck them over? Because I sure as fuck want a cofounder who will be willing to sue whoever fucks us over, whereas I don't intend to fuck anyone over so it would be zero risk to me. Someone who is too worried about what Musk fanboys think of them to go after what they are owed would make a terrible founder.