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This is called “having your cake and eating it too.” Simply don’t pay office rent and let them sue you and drag your feet forever until they negotiate for lowe

This is called “having your cake and eating it too.” Simply don’t pay office rent and let them sue you and drag your feet forever until they negotiate for lower rent or go bankrupt. If you know commercial real estate are about to go bankrupt if they can’t collect rent, then you have a lot of power. Wait nine months without paying and they will be too busy being bankrupt to afford lawyers to sue you into submission. Musk seems to know it so maybe they cave and he gets 1/2 price commercial space. Announce everyone gets a giant severance then … just don’t pay. While claiming you did on twitter or will. I have less sympathy for land lords. I think they did an effective job completely Turning public opinion against twitter employees. Painting them as dead weight and woke stooges for the FBI. Now we find out - Yeah they aren’t getting paid for being laid off as promised. But now they are so painted unfavorably he might be calculating no one will actually care. The ex employees can’t do anything? They never even “got laid off.” Watching this play out it’s clear that musk is playing total hardball with the legal system and exploiting the loop holes and edge cases. It’s shocking to see it play out like this. And for whatever reason he can somehow : is likely to somehow walk out of it with his reputation intact since so many people are cheering for it.

baby 4y ago
Sorry but I'm not sure I understand your comment, I think you would gain some benefit in trying to make it clearer and more structured as it's quite long and feels more like a rambling.
- silisili 4y ago
  Maybe it's been edited, but it seemed pretty clear to me they were describing the ways Musk is trying to 'cheat the system.'
- _s 4y ago
  At a first read it's a bit ambiguous - but essentially Musk is more or less "staying in the office without paying rent", waiting for the "landlord" to try and kick him out using legal means, or renegotiate for a lower rent (severance pay for ex employees in this case) or none at all, knowing that the "landlord" has no real power or means to penalise.
  - baby 4y ago
    But what does that have to do with the link?
    - _s 4y ago
      The GP on twitter was laid off almost two months, and not given their severance as far as we can tell, or given any notification of severance. More or less they were fired on the spot, and they'd have to find some legal means to recoup any backpay / severance from Twitter (Musk). In OP's words, they're the landlord who did not get paid and the tenant (Musk / Twitter) is abusing their power.
- labrador 4y ago
  It's a list of ideas or "takes" about the situation. I enjoyed it and thought it was interesting. It's time consuming to put something like this in essay format, but some ideas thrown out there are fine with me.
dkokelley 4y ago
According to https://twitter.com/magey/status/1610856428646064129 https://twitter.com/magey/status/1610856428646064129 the 60 day notice ends tomorrow, so it’s possible the payments are being sent at the last possible day.
CobrastanJorji 4y ago
Your other points may or may not be valid, but I think it's fairly uncontested that Musk's reputation took and continues to take huge damage over every aspect of the Twitter fiasco. He's burning down a $50 billion acquisition like he's a 1980s corporate raider, except that the raiders made money by torching corporations.
- hparadiz 4y ago
  I don't really see Twitter use going down much which means revenue can likely stay as is at 5 billion annually and likely grow over time. Cut out 80% of the costs and a 50 billion price tag isn't that farfetched. It's possible to recoup the cost within 10 years by increasing revenue only 20% and keeping costs low. He could have done this without being a total dick about it though. It's the billionare equivalent of being penny wise but pound foolish. Why take the hit from public opinion when it's gonna negatively effect your other brands? Just dumb execution.
  - edmundsauto 4y ago
    Many of the large advertisers have left, that will be a challenge to maintain revenue. Plus +$1B in annual interest payments and it being more expensive to borrow money due to interest rate rises + being seen as a larger risk than other borrowers.
    - hparadiz 4y ago
      I think that's just temporary. People will forget and move on. Advertisers will want back in on the action. All he has to do is stop talking.
      - edmundsauto 4y ago
        I'm sure some will return, but the default as of now is to not spend on Twitter. From my friends who buy ads at big agencies, they are actually quite happy to not deal with the smaller reach and platform - but felt they needed to, in order to show their clients "effort". In addition, there is general belt tightening, and ad spends are the first thing to get hit. Going after the smaller ad networks reduces the effort to maintain campaigns; add in that there is a reason to drop Twitter instead of across the board reduction, and I think this is a problem for twitter. I'd wager that 50% of the dollars that left aren't going to return, if not more.
AlexThrowAway 4y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- aplummer 4y ago
  It’s “unprofitable” losing a few hundred million with a billion a year in r&d. call me naive but not that much changes on Twitter there’s not research to leave on the table. The kind of thing you can turn around with 20% (deep but normal) cost cutting. Now that they have loans to pay and far less revenue? A much worse situation.
- hsavit1 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - starfallg 4y ago
    >consistently right wing and labor busting and chauvinist. Well, the parent implied these are symptoms of his ASPD and Bi-Polar diagnosis.
- philwelch 4y ago
  By publicly diagnosing a public figure you’ve never met of mental illnesses, you’ve demonstrated one of two things. Either you’re not a mental health professional and are completely unqualified to be making these ridiculous claims, or you are, and are thus publicly violating one of the central ethical rules of your profession. (Edit: The third and least likely option is that you are a mental health professional who has evaluated Elon Musk, in which case I believe you are violating federal law.)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - AlexThrowAway 4y ago
    Come on man, he mentioned the bipolar himself in multiple recorded interviews. It's a matter of public record. Mania doesn't make you abuse your workforces at multiple companies over a period of decades, lie about holding your son that died from SIDS when you actually weren't home, or dump half a dozen spouses when you get bored with them. That's not having empathy. This man does not have empathy.
andrewflnr 4y ago
> I think they did an effective job completely Turning public opinion against twitter employees. Interesting. Is this true, and I just live in a pro-twitter-employee echo chamber?
- gowld 4y ago
  It's only true in the QAnon bubble.
- htag 4y ago
  I think the quote might be a bit hyperbolic, but there is a general PR push against twitter employees that has caught on a bit. Here is some anti-twitter narratives I've picked up. * Twitter didn't crash as soon as Musk laid everyone off, as some predicted. This gives credence to the 'dead weight' angle. * There's some controversy around Twitter and it's employees being anti-conservative or anti-free speech in some circles. This was highlighted by Trump being banned. * There's open questions around the intelligence community's (FBI specifically) influence on social media under the guise of preventing the spread of 'misinformation'. This isn't a Twitter specific problem, and most of it is aimed at management/exec level, but it doesn't help the reputation of the average twitter employee. * Twitter in general inflames emotions. It's no surprise people have opinions about the people that work there. * There's a general view that tech workers are highly compensated with great perks. We are unlikely to gather sympathy.
  - kcplate 4y ago
    > * There's a general view that tech workers are highly compensated with great perks. We are unlikely to gather sympathy. You are not going to get much sympathy from someone who works a 75k year job on their feet, getting all kinds of dirty and grimy from the labor they do, when they hear that your 400k WFH gig for a arguably evil social media company went away…and you got 3 months of severance to boot—literally a years wages for them. Oh boo-hoo
gowld 4y ago
Why is Musk stealing / defrauding >$1million from his landlord not a felony?
- wpietri 4y ago
  “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal loaves of bread” One of the things I've learned from Ken White (aka Popehat) is that the more a behavior is something only a rich or powerful person might do, the more flexible the laws. E.g., tax fraud is a "specific intent" crime, where they have to prove that your intention was tax fraud. Or we can look at how wage theft is treated vs the same amount of normal theft.
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    ooh ooh do honest services next
- borski 4y ago
  His landlord can evict him and/or sue him (well, Twitter, not him) for the back rent. Whether they will or not is a separate issue, but that’s technically something his landlord could do.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jurassic 4y ago
> I think they did an effective job completely Turning public opinion against twitter employees. Painting them as dead weight and woke stooges for the FBI. I disagree. From what I've seen, the only people holding anything against Twitter employees are those with a political bent that makes them inclined toward belief in a grand conspiracy to suppress conservative views. Like everything else political, it's a Rorschach test where people on the right-leaning fringe say "yeah, fuck those lazy/woke/entitled/whatever employees" and everyone else is left shaking their heads about how Elon is running the company and the brand (of Twitter, himself, and his other businesses) into the ground. Even conservative financial media like the Wall Street Journal have been critical or at least skeptical of his moves, so I don't think it's accurate to say everyone is in agreement that the employees were the problem. Twitter was doing fine before Elon. They were not blowing anyone's socks off with financial performance, but they were relatively stable for the long term and could have got through the recession with a much more modest layoff similar to what you're seeing in other companies. Elon is solely responsible for tipping the company into an aggressive nosedive by saddling the company with massive debt and single-handedly tanking revenue by scaring away advertisers with his $8 blue check impersonation crisis and many other erratic policy changes.

baby 4y ago

Sorry but I'm not sure I understand your comment, I think you would gain some benefit in trying to make it clearer and more structured as it's quite long and feels more like a rambling.

silisili 4y ago
Maybe it's been edited, but it seemed pretty clear to me they were describing the ways Musk is trying to 'cheat the system.'
_s 4y ago
At a first read it's a bit ambiguous - but essentially Musk is more or less "staying in the office without paying rent", waiting for the "landlord" to try and kick him out using legal means, or renegotiate for a lower rent (severance pay for ex employees in this case) or none at all, knowing that the "landlord" has no real power or means to penalise.
- baby 4y ago
  But what does that have to do with the link?
  - _s 4y ago
    The GP on twitter was laid off almost two months, and not given their severance as far as we can tell, or given any notification of severance. More or less they were fired on the spot, and they'd have to find some legal means to recoup any backpay / severance from Twitter (Musk). In OP's words, they're the landlord who did not get paid and the tenant (Musk / Twitter) is abusing their power.
labrador 4y ago
It's a list of ideas or "takes" about the situation. I enjoyed it and thought it was interesting. It's time consuming to put something like this in essay format, but some ideas thrown out there are fine with me.

dkokelley 4y ago

According to https://twitter.com/magey/status/1610856428646064129 https://twitter.com/magey/status/1610856428646064129 the 60 day notice ends tomorrow, so it’s possible the payments are being sent at the last possible day.

CobrastanJorji 4y ago

Your other points may or may not be valid, but I think it's fairly uncontested that Musk's reputation took and continues to take huge damage over every aspect of the Twitter fiasco. He's burning down a $50 billion acquisition like he's a 1980s corporate raider, except that the raiders made money by torching corporations.

hparadiz 4y ago
I don't really see Twitter use going down much which means revenue can likely stay as is at 5 billion annually and likely grow over time. Cut out 80% of the costs and a 50 billion price tag isn't that farfetched. It's possible to recoup the cost within 10 years by increasing revenue only 20% and keeping costs low. He could have done this without being a total dick about it though. It's the billionare equivalent of being penny wise but pound foolish. Why take the hit from public opinion when it's gonna negatively effect your other brands? Just dumb execution.
- edmundsauto 4y ago
  Many of the large advertisers have left, that will be a challenge to maintain revenue. Plus +$1B in annual interest payments and it being more expensive to borrow money due to interest rate rises + being seen as a larger risk than other borrowers.
  - hparadiz 4y ago
    I think that's just temporary. People will forget and move on. Advertisers will want back in on the action. All he has to do is stop talking.
    - edmundsauto 4y ago
      I'm sure some will return, but the default as of now is to not spend on Twitter. From my friends who buy ads at big agencies, they are actually quite happy to not deal with the smaller reach and platform - but felt they needed to, in order to show their clients "effort". In addition, there is general belt tightening, and ad spends are the first thing to get hit. Going after the smaller ad networks reduces the effort to maintain campaigns; add in that there is a reason to drop Twitter instead of across the board reduction, and I think this is a problem for twitter. I'd wager that 50% of the dollars that left aren't going to return, if not more.

AlexThrowAway 4y ago

[flagged]

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
aplummer 4y ago
It’s “unprofitable” losing a few hundred million with a billion a year in r&d. call me naive but not that much changes on Twitter there’s not research to leave on the table. The kind of thing you can turn around with 20% (deep but normal) cost cutting. Now that they have loans to pay and far less revenue? A much worse situation.
hsavit1 4y ago
[flagged]
- starfallg 4y ago
  >consistently right wing and labor busting and chauvinist. Well, the parent implied these are symptoms of his ASPD and Bi-Polar diagnosis.
philwelch 4y ago
By publicly diagnosing a public figure you’ve never met of mental illnesses, you’ve demonstrated one of two things. Either you’re not a mental health professional and are completely unqualified to be making these ridiculous claims, or you are, and are thus publicly violating one of the central ethical rules of your profession. (Edit: The third and least likely option is that you are a mental health professional who has evaluated Elon Musk, in which case I believe you are violating federal law.)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- AlexThrowAway 4y ago
  Come on man, he mentioned the bipolar himself in multiple recorded interviews. It's a matter of public record. Mania doesn't make you abuse your workforces at multiple companies over a period of decades, lie about holding your son that died from SIDS when you actually weren't home, or dump half a dozen spouses when you get bored with them. That's not having empathy. This man does not have empathy.

andrewflnr 4y ago

> I think they did an effective job completely Turning public opinion against twitter employees. Interesting. Is this true, and I just live in a pro-twitter-employee echo chamber?

gowld 4y ago
It's only true in the QAnon bubble.
htag 4y ago
I think the quote might be a bit hyperbolic, but there is a general PR push against twitter employees that has caught on a bit. Here is some anti-twitter narratives I've picked up. * Twitter didn't crash as soon as Musk laid everyone off, as some predicted. This gives credence to the 'dead weight' angle. * There's some controversy around Twitter and it's employees being anti-conservative or anti-free speech in some circles. This was highlighted by Trump being banned. * There's open questions around the intelligence community's (FBI specifically) influence on social media under the guise of preventing the spread of 'misinformation'. This isn't a Twitter specific problem, and most of it is aimed at management/exec level, but it doesn't help the reputation of the average twitter employee. * Twitter in general inflames emotions. It's no surprise people have opinions about the people that work there. * There's a general view that tech workers are highly compensated with great perks. We are unlikely to gather sympathy.
- kcplate 4y ago
  > * There's a general view that tech workers are highly compensated with great perks. We are unlikely to gather sympathy. You are not going to get much sympathy from someone who works a 75k year job on their feet, getting all kinds of dirty and grimy from the labor they do, when they hear that your 400k WFH gig for a arguably evil social media company went away…and you got 3 months of severance to boot—literally a years wages for them. Oh boo-hoo

gowld 4y ago

Why is Musk stealing / defrauding >$1million from his landlord not a felony?

wpietri 4y ago
“The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal loaves of bread” One of the things I've learned from Ken White (aka Popehat) is that the more a behavior is something only a rich or powerful person might do, the more flexible the laws. E.g., tax fraud is a "specific intent" crime, where they have to prove that your intention was tax fraud. Or we can look at how wage theft is treated vs the same amount of normal theft.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  ooh ooh do honest services next
borski 4y ago
His landlord can evict him and/or sue him (well, Twitter, not him) for the back rent. Whether they will or not is a separate issue, but that’s technically something his landlord could do.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jurassic 4y ago

> I think they did an effective job completely Turning public opinion against twitter employees. Painting them as dead weight and woke stooges for the FBI. I disagree. From what I've seen, the only people holding anything against Twitter employees are those with a political bent that makes them inclined toward belief in a grand conspiracy to suppress conservative views. Like everything else political, it's a Rorschach test where people on the right-leaning fringe say "yeah, fuck those lazy/woke/entitled/whatever employees" and everyone else is left shaking their heads about how Elon is running the company and the brand (of Twitter, himself, and his other businesses) into the ground. Even conservative financial media like the Wall Street Journal have been critical or at least skeptical of his moves, so I don't think it's accurate to say everyone is in agreement that the employees were the problem. Twitter was doing fine before Elon. They were not blowing anyone's socks off with financial performance, but they were relatively stable for the long term and could have got through the recession with a much more modest layoff similar to what you're seeing in other companies. Elon is solely responsible for tipping the company into an aggressive nosedive by saddling the company with massive debt and single-handedly tanking revenue by scaring away advertisers with his $8 blue check impersonation crisis and many other erratic policy changes.