6 ms·

> What factors do you think are influencing your desire to eat more or less? Well, as you said: > It apparently changes quite a lot as different factors in yo

> What factors do you think are influencing your desire to eat more or less? Well, as you said: > It apparently changes quite a lot as different factors in your life influence you As far as > Additionally, what do you think of the folks who were fat, who then got healthy, and remain healthy? It sounds like you don't believe they can exist There's no implication that they can't exist; just that it's myopic to assume that what worked for them will also work for other people who are fat, particularly when they've tried the same thing and report that it's failed. > Finally, what should we do to the people who have these [factors] that cause them to eat and/or gain weight with little or no control? Accessible GLP-1 agonists are a good start.

SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
If you believe that there are people who succeeded at losing weight and keeping it off, then you must necessarily believe there are people who succeeded at losing weight and failed at keeping it off, just as you must also believe there are people who failed at losing weight in the first place. Are you proposing the people who succeeded at those two steps have something chemically the others didn't? Or what alternative explanation would you provide that explains the different outcomes?
- scarmig 4y ago
  Figure out a compelling answer for what that explanatory factor is, and you'll be a billionaire. Chalking it all up to willpower is, however, unconvincing. When I managed to get down to ~22 BMI awhile back using the willpower approach, I spent literally every moment distracted and obsessing over the food I couldn't have, for months on end. That's not something that most people at 22 BMI do (unless you think that they also use their willpower to quash the constant intrusive thoughts). It's not a huge leap that others who struggle with getting to a healthy body weight experience something similar, especially because it's what they report happening. I wouldn't be surprised if the people who fail outright have even stronger cravings than I did.
  - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
    What about 90% willpower? 80/20? I'm willing to go below 100% on ascribing this to willpower, but probably no lower than 70%, just based on the outcomes for folks who have willpower and for folks who don't. There's just too much evidence supporting the idea that actively eating less and continuing to do so is a successful strategy for losing weight, combined with the obvious fact of simple human biology that eating involves consciously taking food and putting it into your mouth (sleep-eating notwithstanding).
    - scarmig 4y ago
      I hesitate to speculate; for any individual, it could be a different mix. It would be an interesting test to correlate obesity with other non-food related willpower tasks. If the correlation was high, on a population level I'd lean more toward willpower being the dominating factor; if the correlation was low, more toward the catchall non-willpower factor.
      - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
        But you already speculated by claiming it's not 100%. So either you have another number in mind or are just being contrarian... Further, your experimentation has a flaw; no two things carry identical risk factors and "willpower" factors. Food, as anything, is unique, so the idea of comparing it to other willpower exertions isn't relevant.
        scarmig 4y ago
        > Food, as anything, is unique, so the idea of comparing it to other willpower exertions isn't relevant. So, you're backing away from the idea that people who struggle with weight lack willpower and are shifting to the stance that they lack some hunger-specific willpower that's unrelated to anything else meaningful? That's completely indistinguishable from the idea that some people feel hunger more than others.
        4y ago

SpeedilyDamage 4y ago

If you believe that there are people who succeeded at losing weight and keeping it off, then you must necessarily believe there are people who succeeded at losing weight and failed at keeping it off, just as you must also believe there are people who failed at losing weight in the first place. Are you proposing the people who succeeded at those two steps have something chemically the others didn't? Or what alternative explanation would you provide that explains the different outcomes?

scarmig 4y ago
Figure out a compelling answer for what that explanatory factor is, and you'll be a billionaire. Chalking it all up to willpower is, however, unconvincing. When I managed to get down to ~22 BMI awhile back using the willpower approach, I spent literally every moment distracted and obsessing over the food I couldn't have, for months on end. That's not something that most people at 22 BMI do (unless you think that they also use their willpower to quash the constant intrusive thoughts). It's not a huge leap that others who struggle with getting to a healthy body weight experience something similar, especially because it's what they report happening. I wouldn't be surprised if the people who fail outright have even stronger cravings than I did.
- SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
  What about 90% willpower? 80/20? I'm willing to go below 100% on ascribing this to willpower, but probably no lower than 70%, just based on the outcomes for folks who have willpower and for folks who don't. There's just too much evidence supporting the idea that actively eating less and continuing to do so is a successful strategy for losing weight, combined with the obvious fact of simple human biology that eating involves consciously taking food and putting it into your mouth (sleep-eating notwithstanding).
  - scarmig 4y ago
    I hesitate to speculate; for any individual, it could be a different mix. It would be an interesting test to correlate obesity with other non-food related willpower tasks. If the correlation was high, on a population level I'd lean more toward willpower being the dominating factor; if the correlation was low, more toward the catchall non-willpower factor.
    - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
      But you already speculated by claiming it's not 100%. So either you have another number in mind or are just being contrarian... Further, your experimentation has a flaw; no two things carry identical risk factors and "willpower" factors. Food, as anything, is unique, so the idea of comparing it to other willpower exertions isn't relevant.
      - scarmig 4y ago
        > Food, as anything, is unique, so the idea of comparing it to other willpower exertions isn't relevant. So, you're backing away from the idea that people who struggle with weight lack willpower and are shifting to the stance that they lack some hunger-specific willpower that's unrelated to anything else meaningful? That's completely indistinguishable from the idea that some people feel hunger more than others.
        4y ago