8 ms·

Being a young and very healthy person I felt this way about the COVID vaccine.

komali2 4y ago
Why? Plenty of young and healthy people died of COVID. Only some vaccines are mRNA types, and, in the USA anyway, all vaccines went through the same testing process as any other medication, they simply sped the process up by layering some of the steps - all that means is that rather than wait to see if one study passes before doing the next one (save money or whatever), they just overlapped them. Even for MRNA vaccines, that's 2 decade old tech. Were you also worried about cold vaccines? Could this help alleviate some of your concerns? : https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas...
- tempestn 4y ago
  I'm with you except for the cold vaccines line. Did you mean flu vaccines?
  - komali2 4y ago
    yes, thank you
- logicchains 4y ago
  >all vaccines went through the same testing process as any other medication, they simply sped the process up by layering some of the steps - all that means is that rather than wait to see if one study passes before doing the next one (save money or whatever), they just overlapped them This is misinformation. The normal process involves at least 4-5 years of observation to identify long-term side effects; you can't speed this up, as no matter how many people you test, it's not going to make long-term side effects manifest sooner. And while the technology has been around for 20 years, it certainly hasn't been trialed on humans until very recently, due to difficulty finding a safe delivery mechanism.
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    > The normal process involves at least 4-5 years of observation to identify long-term side effects. If you have for instance an Ebola vaccine, how can you show it works when there's only a few hundred cases a year? You can't just infect people. You have to vaccinate a bunch of test candidates and wait. Sometimes years until you can show a statistical advantage. With COVID literally everyone had it so they could show it worked by the end of the weekend. > ... it's not going to make long-term side effects manifest sooner. They're looking for short-term side effects, they're testing efficacy and they're looking for 'long-term side-effects.' A long-term side-effect here doesn't mean one that's latent for years before presenting, it's one that presents quickly (days, weeks) but causes lasting harm. So yeah they're looking for them but they're not primarily vaccinating people and then following them for 4-5 years to see if something miraculously goes wrong 3 years later. That's what VAERS is for. > And while the technology has been around for 20 years, it certainly hasn't been trialed on humans until very recently, due to difficulty finding a safe delivery mechanism. mRNA vaccines and adenoviral vector vaccines have been in development since the 1970s. Vaccines have been around since 1721. We know what kinds of effects to expect, and they're (a) overwhelmingly short term and (b) we know of no mechanism where latent effects might randomly appear 4-5 years later since we know these platforms don't alter DNA. We know from having extensively characterized the platform over fifty years that if nothing happens within the first few months, nothing's going to happen. So really the parent post is right. Development went fast because we (a) leveraged a platform we'd extensively characterized and knew a ton about (b) were able to show efficacy very quickly due to prevalence of the disease within the population (c) layered a bunch of steps. [edit] They didn't exactly YOLO this and I think that's born out by the fact we have like 5 different vaccines developed over comparable timeframes, administered billions of times all with the absolute bare minimum of adverse effects and incredible efficacy. Frankly it beggars belief that lightning struck so many times and we just got lucky a few billion times over. Maybe we were careful, and maybe the system worked.
  - astrange 4y ago
    Vaccines don’t have long term side effects. They have short term side effects. And if they did have long term side effects, we’d observe them in the trials because they’d occur in the short term at a low probability.
- brigandish 4y ago
  > Plenty of young and healthy people died of COVID. The median age of death due to COVID-19 in the UK[1], as of January 2021, was 83. I haven't checked but there is little reason to think this has changed much. From page 9 of Public Health England's Excess Weight and COVID-19 report[2] of July 2020: > patients with COVID-19 living with overweight (BMI ≥25kg/m2) or obesity (BMI ≥30kg/m2), compared with patients with a healthy weight (BMI 20 to <25kg/m2) are more likely to be hospitalised if infected with COVID-19 A report came out at the end of the year titled Associations of Physical Inactivity and COVID-19 Outcomes Among Subgroups[3]: > The ORs are striking. In the full sample, those who were consistently inactive were 191% more likely to be hospitalized and 391% more likely to die than those who were consistently active. Dose‒response effects were mostly present across sex, race/ethnicity, age category, BMI category, and history of cardiovascular disease and hypertension, although the CIs sometimes included one. Although the odds were highest for patients in the always inactive category, every lower category of physical inactivity increased the odds of adverse COVID-19 outcomes. We now have reams of data and analysis that backs this up again and again and again - some of which was even known in the first 6 months of the pandemic (which makes a lot of the official advice, like lockdowns and denying access to parks and gyms, negligent and reckless in my view). To associate COVID-19 mortality with youth and health is perverse, unless it's to say "it's very rare". [1] https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/averageageofthosewhohaddiedwithcovid19 https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/fre... [2] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/excess-weight-and-covid-19-insights-from-new-evidence#content https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/excess-weight-and... [3] https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(22)00526-8/fulltext https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(22)00526-8/ful...
  - komali2 4y ago
    Correct, more unhealthy and old people died of COVID. More drunk people are involved in car accidents than sober. Yet I still put on my seatbelt.
    - brigandish 4y ago
      Do you put on a seat belt when you're at a car dealer and try sitting in a car? You never know, a car might come through the window and hit the car you're in and you'll be glad you had that seat belt on. Most people won't though, they see the risk for what it is, too low for them to worry about. It is, of course, up to you.
- concordDance 4y ago
  Very very few young and healthy (eg sensible bmi, some exercise, no smoking) people died of COVID. I think it was about a dozen in the UK. A few hundred young people had heart damage from moderna: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/rare-heart-related-side-effects-higher-moderna-covid-vaccine https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/rare-heart-related-side-effects-h... Probably no deaths though: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/articles/covid19vaccinationandmortalityinyoungpeopleduringthecoronaviruspandemic/2022-03-22 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan... Disclaimer: I think on the net it was sensible for young healthy people to take even Moderna as COVID can cause serious long term damage, but it wasn't costless and we aren't completely sure that it was a net benefit to the healthy young for them to vaccinate (this is ignoring the large effects from things like them infecting others or taking up healthcare resources).
- MaxHoppersGhost 4y ago
  Not worried about flu vaccines because they’ve been around forever. MRNA vaccines are relatively new and weren’t observed for long term side effects like other vaccines. Johns Hopkins to me is part of the same machine making anyone who doesn’t get a vaccine an outcast. I would trust them about as much as the CCP regarding COVID’s origins.
  - arghandugh 4y ago
    This is absolute disinformation and you should be ashamed. Delete this.

Why? Plenty of young and healthy people died of COVID. Only some vaccines are mRNA types, and, in the USA anyway, all vaccines went through the same testing process as any other medication, they simply sped the process up by layering some of the steps - all that means is that rather than wait to see if one study passes before doing the next one (save money or whatever), they just overlapped them. Even for MRNA vaccines, that's 2 decade old tech. Were you also worried about cold vaccines? Could this help alleviate some of your concerns? : https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas...

tempestn 4y ago
I'm with you except for the cold vaccines line. Did you mean flu vaccines?
- komali2 4y ago
  yes, thank you
logicchains 4y ago
>all vaccines went through the same testing process as any other medication, they simply sped the process up by layering some of the steps - all that means is that rather than wait to see if one study passes before doing the next one (save money or whatever), they just overlapped them This is misinformation. The normal process involves at least 4-5 years of observation to identify long-term side effects; you can't speed this up, as no matter how many people you test, it's not going to make long-term side effects manifest sooner. And while the technology has been around for 20 years, it certainly hasn't been trialed on humans until very recently, due to difficulty finding a safe delivery mechanism.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  > The normal process involves at least 4-5 years of observation to identify long-term side effects. If you have for instance an Ebola vaccine, how can you show it works when there's only a few hundred cases a year? You can't just infect people. You have to vaccinate a bunch of test candidates and wait. Sometimes years until you can show a statistical advantage. With COVID literally everyone had it so they could show it worked by the end of the weekend. > ... it's not going to make long-term side effects manifest sooner. They're looking for short-term side effects, they're testing efficacy and they're looking for 'long-term side-effects.' A long-term side-effect here doesn't mean one that's latent for years before presenting, it's one that presents quickly (days, weeks) but causes lasting harm. So yeah they're looking for them but they're not primarily vaccinating people and then following them for 4-5 years to see if something miraculously goes wrong 3 years later. That's what VAERS is for. > And while the technology has been around for 20 years, it certainly hasn't been trialed on humans until very recently, due to difficulty finding a safe delivery mechanism. mRNA vaccines and adenoviral vector vaccines have been in development since the 1970s. Vaccines have been around since 1721. We know what kinds of effects to expect, and they're (a) overwhelmingly short term and (b) we know of no mechanism where latent effects might randomly appear 4-5 years later since we know these platforms don't alter DNA. We know from having extensively characterized the platform over fifty years that if nothing happens within the first few months, nothing's going to happen. So really the parent post is right. Development went fast because we (a) leveraged a platform we'd extensively characterized and knew a ton about (b) were able to show efficacy very quickly due to prevalence of the disease within the population (c) layered a bunch of steps. [edit] They didn't exactly YOLO this and I think that's born out by the fact we have like 5 different vaccines developed over comparable timeframes, administered billions of times all with the absolute bare minimum of adverse effects and incredible efficacy. Frankly it beggars belief that lightning struck so many times and we just got lucky a few billion times over. Maybe we were careful, and maybe the system worked.
- astrange 4y ago
  Vaccines don’t have long term side effects. They have short term side effects. And if they did have long term side effects, we’d observe them in the trials because they’d occur in the short term at a low probability.
brigandish 4y ago
> Plenty of young and healthy people died of COVID. The median age of death due to COVID-19 in the UK[1], as of January 2021, was 83. I haven't checked but there is little reason to think this has changed much. From page 9 of Public Health England's Excess Weight and COVID-19 report[2] of July 2020: > patients with COVID-19 living with overweight (BMI ≥25kg/m2) or obesity (BMI ≥30kg/m2), compared with patients with a healthy weight (BMI 20 to <25kg/m2) are more likely to be hospitalised if infected with COVID-19 A report came out at the end of the year titled Associations of Physical Inactivity and COVID-19 Outcomes Among Subgroups[3]: > The ORs are striking. In the full sample, those who were consistently inactive were 191% more likely to be hospitalized and 391% more likely to die than those who were consistently active. Dose‒response effects were mostly present across sex, race/ethnicity, age category, BMI category, and history of cardiovascular disease and hypertension, although the CIs sometimes included one. Although the odds were highest for patients in the always inactive category, every lower category of physical inactivity increased the odds of adverse COVID-19 outcomes. We now have reams of data and analysis that backs this up again and again and again - some of which was even known in the first 6 months of the pandemic (which makes a lot of the official advice, like lockdowns and denying access to parks and gyms, negligent and reckless in my view). To associate COVID-19 mortality with youth and health is perverse, unless it's to say "it's very rare". [1] https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/averageageofthosewhohaddiedwithcovid19 https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/fre... [2] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/excess-weight-and-covid-19-insights-from-new-evidence#content https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/excess-weight-and... [3] https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(22)00526-8/fulltext https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(22)00526-8/ful...
- komali2 4y ago
  Correct, more unhealthy and old people died of COVID. More drunk people are involved in car accidents than sober. Yet I still put on my seatbelt.
  - brigandish 4y ago
    Do you put on a seat belt when you're at a car dealer and try sitting in a car? You never know, a car might come through the window and hit the car you're in and you'll be glad you had that seat belt on. Most people won't though, they see the risk for what it is, too low for them to worry about. It is, of course, up to you.
concordDance 4y ago
Very very few young and healthy (eg sensible bmi, some exercise, no smoking) people died of COVID. I think it was about a dozen in the UK. A few hundred young people had heart damage from moderna: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/rare-heart-related-side-effects-higher-moderna-covid-vaccine https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/rare-heart-related-side-effects-h... Probably no deaths though: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/articles/covid19vaccinationandmortalityinyoungpeopleduringthecoronaviruspandemic/2022-03-22 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan... Disclaimer: I think on the net it was sensible for young healthy people to take even Moderna as COVID can cause serious long term damage, but it wasn't costless and we aren't completely sure that it was a net benefit to the healthy young for them to vaccinate (this is ignoring the large effects from things like them infecting others or taking up healthcare resources).
MaxHoppersGhost 4y ago
Not worried about flu vaccines because they’ve been around forever. MRNA vaccines are relatively new and weren’t observed for long term side effects like other vaccines. Johns Hopkins to me is part of the same machine making anyone who doesn’t get a vaccine an outcast. I would trust them about as much as the CCP regarding COVID’s origins.
- arghandugh 4y ago
  This is absolute disinformation and you should be ashamed. Delete this.