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"As soon as the Apple App Store (for iOS) became a thing, developers asked: why not web apps? Why go proprietary? Back in 2008, for that iPhone 3G launch with t

"As soon as the Apple App Store (for iOS) became a thing, developers asked: why not web apps? Why go proprietary? Back in 2008, for that iPhone 3G launch with the App Store, it could have been argued that the web just wasn’t ready for it." I don't know where this guy was when the iPhone came out, but this is backward. Steve Jobs reportedly did not want true third-party applications on the iPhone, and Apple pushed Web apps hard. They argued strenuously that Web apps were just fine. Now... whether Jobs was convinced later, or the fact was that the tooling for native app development just wasn't ready... we all know where it ended up. But the author's revisionist history is bogus.

kevingadd 4y ago
The web really wasn't ready though. I was doing web platform work at the time and it simply was not capable of doing the stuff native could do, which is why the App Store was an inevitability.
- BuckyBeaver 4y ago
  I agree. That's why the author's assertions are completely bogus. Developers were saying "why not NATIVE," whereas he claims the opposite. Apple was saying "Web apps all the way!"
jshier 4y ago
Jobs didn't want apps at all but he was eventually convinced they were needed, late in the iPhone development cycle. So rather than announce the native tools early (they wouldn't ship for another year) they tried to sell web apps in the meantime. Typical Apple release process, even though it's detrimental to them and their users.
- BuckyBeaver 4y ago
  Yep. Thus my assertion that the author's claims are wrong. While I do resent a lot of Apple's lies and anti-user, anti-developer actions, I would give them a pass in this instance because they were inventing an industry-changing development ecosystem and they did so very, very well.
Terretta 4y ago
Your take is what I recall as well. And not just Jobs and Apple on the HTML apps kick, Jon Rubenstein (aka 'the Podfather' for producing the iPod) left Apple to make Palm into a web app powerhouse, developing the webOS platform and the Palm Pre. This is how mobile devices were supposed to work. The "native apps" jag is a disaster I'd argue was mostly generated by devs not users or manufacturers, and set mobile web back a decade.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Looking at Symbian and Windows CE/Pocket PC, not really, it was pretty much native apps.
- mike_hearn 4y ago
  If it was how they were meant to work then iOS would have looked like WebOS, with all first party apps written in HTML and JS. The reason devs rejected Jobs' "write web apps" pitch, which was only ever about the SDK, store and APIs not being ready in time, was because it was so clearly not what Apple themselves were doing. Nor could they hope to match the quality of Apple's apps without using the same APIs.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > was mostly generated by devs not users or manufacturers, and set mobile web back a decade. This simple fact was true in 2007 and it still is true in 2022: you can't even animate a list item on the web without incurring significant performance costs. Slack eats 20% CPU on an M1 Mac to display a single animated emoji. Web has never been, and never will be a platform for apps. This has nothing to do with "devs vs. users". Users want slick performant apps that don't destroy your battery life. Web cannot and will never be able to offer that. Because the core of the web is, was and will for ever be a system to display static text and images in a single rendering pass.
sangnoir 4y ago
The author also falsely claimed that Google acquired Danger - it did not! I get the distinct impression that the thread is poorly researched, and I am therefore wary about the conclusions drawn.
- magicalist 4y ago
  https://toot.cafe/@slightlyoff/109632790982933562 https://toot.cafe/@slightlyoff/109632790982933562
- terrycody 4y ago
  So Danger OS belongs to who now? Andy? Is it merged into the Android1.0?
  - GeekyBear 4y ago
    Microsoft bought Danger. They spent a huge amount of time rewriting everything from Java to .net and by the time they released the Kin phones they were no longer competitive in the market. Microsoft cancelled the Kin phones only a few weeks after their release. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_(company)
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
I think Steve Jobs, as great as he was, didn't initially grasp the immense money these setups can make.
magicalist 4y ago
This comment is confusing because you're talking about the article by a different author linked from the post, not the linked post itself.
- BuckyBeaver 4y ago
  No one else seems to be confused, but to be fair I didn't even remember that the HN post went to a tweet... or toot. However, the poster of that link seems to agree with the author of the core article.
  - magicalist 4y ago
    > No one else seems to be confused you refer to "the author's revisionist history", sangnoir's comment in response says "the author also falsely claimed...", but these are referring to two different authors. > the poster of that link seems to agree with the author of the core article he literally wrote "While Chris is crisp about the problem and the consequences of not solving it, he doesn't have answers for why Google and Apple act the way they do" and proceeds to give a different history and background. > but to be fair I didn't even remember that the HN post went to a tweet... or toot so...you were confused.
    - BuckyBeaver 4y ago
      No, you were confused, as you said. About more than one thing, apparently.
killingtime74 4y ago
Whatever Jobs wanted he is now long gone

kevingadd 4y ago

The web really wasn't ready though. I was doing web platform work at the time and it simply was not capable of doing the stuff native could do, which is why the App Store was an inevitability.

BuckyBeaver 4y ago
I agree. That's why the author's assertions are completely bogus. Developers were saying "why not NATIVE," whereas he claims the opposite. Apple was saying "Web apps all the way!"

jshier 4y ago

Jobs didn't want apps at all but he was eventually convinced they were needed, late in the iPhone development cycle. So rather than announce the native tools early (they wouldn't ship for another year) they tried to sell web apps in the meantime. Typical Apple release process, even though it's detrimental to them and their users.

BuckyBeaver 4y ago
Yep. Thus my assertion that the author's claims are wrong. While I do resent a lot of Apple's lies and anti-user, anti-developer actions, I would give them a pass in this instance because they were inventing an industry-changing development ecosystem and they did so very, very well.

Terretta 4y ago

Your take is what I recall as well. And not just Jobs and Apple on the HTML apps kick, Jon Rubenstein (aka 'the Podfather' for producing the iPod) left Apple to make Palm into a web app powerhouse, developing the webOS platform and the Palm Pre. This is how mobile devices were supposed to work. The "native apps" jag is a disaster I'd argue was mostly generated by devs not users or manufacturers, and set mobile web back a decade.

pjmlp 4y ago
Looking at Symbian and Windows CE/Pocket PC, not really, it was pretty much native apps.
mike_hearn 4y ago
If it was how they were meant to work then iOS would have looked like WebOS, with all first party apps written in HTML and JS. The reason devs rejected Jobs' "write web apps" pitch, which was only ever about the SDK, store and APIs not being ready in time, was because it was so clearly not what Apple themselves were doing. Nor could they hope to match the quality of Apple's apps without using the same APIs.
dmitriid 4y ago
> was mostly generated by devs not users or manufacturers, and set mobile web back a decade. This simple fact was true in 2007 and it still is true in 2022: you can't even animate a list item on the web without incurring significant performance costs. Slack eats 20% CPU on an M1 Mac to display a single animated emoji. Web has never been, and never will be a platform for apps. This has nothing to do with "devs vs. users". Users want slick performant apps that don't destroy your battery life. Web cannot and will never be able to offer that. Because the core of the web is, was and will for ever be a system to display static text and images in a single rendering pass.

sangnoir 4y ago

The author also falsely claimed that Google acquired Danger - it did not! I get the distinct impression that the thread is poorly researched, and I am therefore wary about the conclusions drawn.

magicalist 4y ago
https://toot.cafe/@slightlyoff/109632790982933562 https://toot.cafe/@slightlyoff/109632790982933562
terrycody 4y ago
So Danger OS belongs to who now? Andy? Is it merged into the Android1.0?
- GeekyBear 4y ago
  Microsoft bought Danger. They spent a huge amount of time rewriting everything from Java to .net and by the time they released the Kin phones they were no longer competitive in the market. Microsoft cancelled the Kin phones only a few weeks after their release. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_(company)

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago

I think Steve Jobs, as great as he was, didn't initially grasp the immense money these setups can make.

magicalist 4y ago

This comment is confusing because you're talking about the article by a different author linked from the post, not the linked post itself.

BuckyBeaver 4y ago
No one else seems to be confused, but to be fair I didn't even remember that the HN post went to a tweet... or toot. However, the poster of that link seems to agree with the author of the core article.
- magicalist 4y ago
  > No one else seems to be confused you refer to "the author's revisionist history", sangnoir's comment in response says "the author also falsely claimed...", but these are referring to two different authors. > the poster of that link seems to agree with the author of the core article he literally wrote "While Chris is crisp about the problem and the consequences of not solving it, he doesn't have answers for why Google and Apple act the way they do" and proceeds to give a different history and background. > but to be fair I didn't even remember that the HN post went to a tweet... or toot so...you were confused.
  - BuckyBeaver 4y ago
    No, you were confused, as you said. About more than one thing, apparently.

killingtime74 4y ago

Whatever Jobs wanted he is now long gone