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If this were true I would not expect that changes in our lifestyle would cause broad scale weight increases like they have. I'm very skeptical humans are built

If this were true I would not expect that changes in our lifestyle would cause broad scale weight increases like they have. I'm very skeptical humans are built with an average set weight way up in the unhealthy range. Or maybe this is the case, but it is thrown off hard by our modern diets. Our natural set point is in the healthy range, but our meal is x calories per Y food now so it ends up artificially high. The explanation just doesn't line up with what we've seen. I get that it's hard to lose weight once you've gained it, but that's different. This is absolving us of being responsible for our obesity as a whole.

MajimasEyepatch 4y ago
I think you're misunderstanding. There is no "natural set point." The set point moves up and down based on hormones, genes, diet, environment, medication, etc. And the very act of gaining weight causes your body's set point to move up, because of how weight gain affects your hormones. Unfortunately the set point is pretty sticky, and once it moves up, it does not like to move back down, in part because for most of animal history, weight loss is a sign of starvation. Today, there are a bunch of factors that have combined to move people's set points higher than they should be: calorie-dense diets, sedentary lifestyles, plastics, drugs like antidepressants and lithium compounds in the water supply, and who knows what else. No one is arguing that the "natural" set point is 300 pounds or whatever. The point is that there is no natural set point because it's a function of many different variables.
- Izkata 4y ago
  > And the very act of gaining weight causes your body's set point to move up, because of how weight gain affects your hormones. Unfortunately the set point is pretty sticky, and once it moves up, it does not like to move back down, in part because for most of animal history, weight loss is a sign of starvation. Kind of, but increasing doesn't go indefinitely either. People have multiple "set points", not one moveable one, long known among people intentionally increasing their weight as "plateaus".
- vladf 4y ago
  What is a set point not influenced by? The way you framed it, it seems to take everything into account. In that case, why wouldn't "your current weight" not just be your set point?
  - hammock 4y ago
    He didn’t explain the concept of a set point very well. Your body’s set point is a weight that it wants to go back to. The set point can change, but not without great effort. Small efforts will simply result in temporary weight gain/loss and eventual reversion to the set point weight. Great efforts (long term changes in diet and lifestyle, not just a 7 day juice fast) are required to re-set your set point higher or lower. Think of a hamster crawling up a giant mixing bowl or something, set on a particular spot on the kitchen floor. The hamster can walk forwards up the side of the bowl, but the bowl has not moved and since the sides of the bowl are very steep, the hamster will slide back down to the middle of the bowl where he started. If he wants to get to a different part of the kitchen, he will have to really slam his body against the side of the bowl, or work hard in a different way, to “nudge” the whole bowl across the floor so it’s now sitting at a different “set point”
ajkjk 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_point_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_point_theory may help > but it is thrown off hard by our modern diets. Yes. I think the dominant theory is that it has something to do with gut microbiomes, and in particular sugar and/or artificial sweeteners screw it up pretty badly.
- MajimasEyepatch 4y ago
  That is a theory, and I think most researchers agree that it's a factor, but I don't think most researchers would say it's primarily to do with the gut microbiome.
- kuhewa 4y ago
  It would seem really odd to me if it was just one aspect of modern lifestyle and diet. I would be shocked if both proliferation of cheap highly processed and hyperpalatable food and declining activity rates/greatly increased in screen time didn't both play a major role.
- markus_zhang 4y ago
  I'm actually thinking about going serious about healing the gut microbiomes. The sugar part is the most difficult. It's very easy to eat food that helps and consume probiotics, but a life without sugar...Jesus I'd rather die. Somehow I became a sugar person from a meat person after I immigrated to Canada. Not sure what the cause was though.
  - naasking 4y ago
    I struggle with sugar cravings too. Controls that work for me are intermittent fasting, eating more fruit after meals, and most importantly, just not having sugary things around the house. The sugar cravings pass after a couple of weeks, but only take a day or two after having sugary to start again.
    - markus_zhang 4y ago
      Yeah I figured that out too. I need to remove sugar from my life. Sadly easier said than done.
argella 4y ago
"The term "natural weight" as used here is misleading." It just means that bodies have a set point that they'll defend. And that weight changes. If you get fat, no matter how you do it, your body will defend that weight and if you lose will take action, increase hunger, reduce metabolism, etc. making it near impossible to keep it off even if you lose it.

MajimasEyepatch 4y ago

I think you're misunderstanding. There is no "natural set point." The set point moves up and down based on hormones, genes, diet, environment, medication, etc. And the very act of gaining weight causes your body's set point to move up, because of how weight gain affects your hormones. Unfortunately the set point is pretty sticky, and once it moves up, it does not like to move back down, in part because for most of animal history, weight loss is a sign of starvation. Today, there are a bunch of factors that have combined to move people's set points higher than they should be: calorie-dense diets, sedentary lifestyles, plastics, drugs like antidepressants and lithium compounds in the water supply, and who knows what else. No one is arguing that the "natural" set point is 300 pounds or whatever. The point is that there is no natural set point because it's a function of many different variables.

Izkata 4y ago
> And the very act of gaining weight causes your body's set point to move up, because of how weight gain affects your hormones. Unfortunately the set point is pretty sticky, and once it moves up, it does not like to move back down, in part because for most of animal history, weight loss is a sign of starvation. Kind of, but increasing doesn't go indefinitely either. People have multiple "set points", not one moveable one, long known among people intentionally increasing their weight as "plateaus".
vladf 4y ago
What is a set point not influenced by? The way you framed it, it seems to take everything into account. In that case, why wouldn't "your current weight" not just be your set point?
- hammock 4y ago
  He didn’t explain the concept of a set point very well. Your body’s set point is a weight that it wants to go back to. The set point can change, but not without great effort. Small efforts will simply result in temporary weight gain/loss and eventual reversion to the set point weight. Great efforts (long term changes in diet and lifestyle, not just a 7 day juice fast) are required to re-set your set point higher or lower. Think of a hamster crawling up a giant mixing bowl or something, set on a particular spot on the kitchen floor. The hamster can walk forwards up the side of the bowl, but the bowl has not moved and since the sides of the bowl are very steep, the hamster will slide back down to the middle of the bowl where he started. If he wants to get to a different part of the kitchen, he will have to really slam his body against the side of the bowl, or work hard in a different way, to “nudge” the whole bowl across the floor so it’s now sitting at a different “set point”

ajkjk 4y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_point_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_point_theory may help > but it is thrown off hard by our modern diets. Yes. I think the dominant theory is that it has something to do with gut microbiomes, and in particular sugar and/or artificial sweeteners screw it up pretty badly.

MajimasEyepatch 4y ago
That is a theory, and I think most researchers agree that it's a factor, but I don't think most researchers would say it's primarily to do with the gut microbiome.
kuhewa 4y ago
It would seem really odd to me if it was just one aspect of modern lifestyle and diet. I would be shocked if both proliferation of cheap highly processed and hyperpalatable food and declining activity rates/greatly increased in screen time didn't both play a major role.
markus_zhang 4y ago
I'm actually thinking about going serious about healing the gut microbiomes. The sugar part is the most difficult. It's very easy to eat food that helps and consume probiotics, but a life without sugar...Jesus I'd rather die. Somehow I became a sugar person from a meat person after I immigrated to Canada. Not sure what the cause was though.
- naasking 4y ago
  I struggle with sugar cravings too. Controls that work for me are intermittent fasting, eating more fruit after meals, and most importantly, just not having sugary things around the house. The sugar cravings pass after a couple of weeks, but only take a day or two after having sugary to start again.
  - markus_zhang 4y ago
    Yeah I figured that out too. I need to remove sugar from my life. Sadly easier said than done.

argella 4y ago

"The term "natural weight" as used here is misleading." It just means that bodies have a set point that they'll defend. And that weight changes. If you get fat, no matter how you do it, your body will defend that weight and if you lose will take action, increase hunger, reduce metabolism, etc. making it near impossible to keep it off even if you lose it.