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I agree about the trolleys on rails and obstacles, which I've seen for myself, but electric vehicles would likely have some battery and run on tires, allowing d

I agree about the trolleys on rails and obstacles, which I've seen for myself, but electric vehicles would likely have some battery and run on tires, allowing diversions from the route. Anyway, I'm guessing it's been considered and I'd love to see the study.

jacquesm 4y ago
I've been reading a bit more about it in the meantime: so, the trolley network in Arnhem is slowly diminishing in size, but it's still there and it will likely be there for quite a while to come. They are looking at ways to use a combination BEV / trolley system to allow the buses to recharge when they're on the line so they can depart from the route for longer stretches. The maneuvering in case of trouble situation is covered by a tiny diesel engine that can move the bus around to the point where it can reconnect to a working segment of the network. One problem with reducing the coverage is that it is relatively easy to take away the lines but the poles are in large chunks of concrete and not easy to remove at all.
- Robotbeat 4y ago
  I think that battery vehicles with substantial batteries (and so could be run on lines without ANY overhead infrastructure in a pinch) but that usually charge via overhead lines on a portion of the route is the ideal option. No charging time, no massive new infrastructure (the catenary only needed on a small fraction of total served lines) but also full flexibility. Actually better than fossil fuel variants which need usually to be refueled at the end of the shift at a depot or whatever.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Yes, it certainly looks like a very clever solution. I know they tried the same thing with a flywheel based bus but that ultimately did not work out. Let's see how this works in practice.
    - Robotbeat 4y ago
      It helps that batteries have literally two orders of magnitude greater range than an old school flywheel.
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        Yes, definitely, they are trialing this in Arnhem, I'll go have a look at it to see how it is all put together. By the looks of it they take a 'normal' trolley bus, remove diesel engine + tank + associated bits and pieces then put a battery in the spot where the tank used to be, and a bunch of electronics (regulator/inverter/charger) to create a voltage high enough to run the normal bus hardware of and to recharge the battery when the bus is connected to the overhead grid.
Robotbeat 4y ago
Another thing is that battery-electric vehicles can be used as drop-in replacements on all existing routes. You don’t need to do environmental reviews or meet with NIMBY stakeholders or shut down local businesses while you install the overhead infrastructure, you just buy the trucks and go (can charge overnight using on-board charger and existing electrical infrastructure… can expand this to accommodate the increased load like you would for any other increased electrical load like the move to air conditioning… but you can get up and operating immediately).

jacquesm 4y ago

I've been reading a bit more about it in the meantime: so, the trolley network in Arnhem is slowly diminishing in size, but it's still there and it will likely be there for quite a while to come. They are looking at ways to use a combination BEV / trolley system to allow the buses to recharge when they're on the line so they can depart from the route for longer stretches. The maneuvering in case of trouble situation is covered by a tiny diesel engine that can move the bus around to the point where it can reconnect to a working segment of the network. One problem with reducing the coverage is that it is relatively easy to take away the lines but the poles are in large chunks of concrete and not easy to remove at all.

Robotbeat 4y ago
I think that battery vehicles with substantial batteries (and so could be run on lines without ANY overhead infrastructure in a pinch) but that usually charge via overhead lines on a portion of the route is the ideal option. No charging time, no massive new infrastructure (the catenary only needed on a small fraction of total served lines) but also full flexibility. Actually better than fossil fuel variants which need usually to be refueled at the end of the shift at a depot or whatever.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Yes, it certainly looks like a very clever solution. I know they tried the same thing with a flywheel based bus but that ultimately did not work out. Let's see how this works in practice.
  - Robotbeat 4y ago
    It helps that batteries have literally two orders of magnitude greater range than an old school flywheel.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      Yes, definitely, they are trialing this in Arnhem, I'll go have a look at it to see how it is all put together. By the looks of it they take a 'normal' trolley bus, remove diesel engine + tank + associated bits and pieces then put a battery in the spot where the tank used to be, and a bunch of electronics (regulator/inverter/charger) to create a voltage high enough to run the normal bus hardware of and to recharge the battery when the bus is connected to the overhead grid.

Robotbeat 4y ago

Another thing is that battery-electric vehicles can be used as drop-in replacements on all existing routes. You don’t need to do environmental reviews or meet with NIMBY stakeholders or shut down local businesses while you install the overhead infrastructure, you just buy the trucks and go (can charge overnight using on-board charger and existing electrical infrastructure… can expand this to accommodate the increased load like you would for any other increased electrical load like the move to air conditioning… but you can get up and operating immediately).