4 ms·

This smells to me at least a little bit like union pressure to slow the transition to electric vehicles, which is just a hop from fully autonomous city vehicles

This smells to me at least a little bit like union pressure to slow the transition to electric vehicles, which is just a hop from fully autonomous city vehicles, putting them all out of work forever.

petermcneeley 4y ago
Seems like a random excuse to Trash talk unions.
- djtriptych 4y ago
  Well, a union rep is quoted in the article, which was weird. His statement was also a little weird. The conclusions and the math involved don't really add up for me. They laid the groundwork for a fight against _any_ conversion to electric vehicles by warning the city council about the possibly prohibitive cost of installing a charger network... I'm not sure it's too outlandish to postulate that the union would act in their own interest here. I think any plan to convert to autonomous vehicles should include a plan for these workers. But I don't think you get to be Sanitation Commissioner in NYC without union support.
  - petermcneeley 4y ago
    Perhaps the union organizers think this but it doesnt really make much sense given that the trains (subway) in NYC are the first thing I would automate and apparently still have drivers. Automating trash pick-up in NYC is probably harder than L5 autonomous driving.
    - djtriptych 4y ago
      It's hard now, but this is a 20 year plan to replace the fleet. Already a budget item for the city, and, possibly, the frontline for union concerns about automation.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> union pressure to slow the transition to electric vehicles, which is just a hop from fully autonomous city vehicles Wouldn’t this incentivise earlier fleet turnover to electric? If you’ve just bought an electric fleet, it’s tougher to justify turning it over again for autonomous only.
- djtriptych 4y ago
  Interesting wrinkle I'd have to think any fully electric car is a better target for autonomous retrofitting, because the drivetrain is already completely fly-by-wire? Using a random estimate, a $100,000/vehicle autonomous retrofit probably pays for itself in like a year. The initial outlay of let's say a half billion to replace the city's fleet with EVs is a much bigger hurdle.
redox99 4y ago
How is it just a hop from fully autonomous city vehicles? The sensor suite and software doesn't really care about the type of engine. Waymo's Chrysler Pacificas are hybrids in fact.

This smells to me at least a little bit like union pressure to slow the transition to electric vehicles, which is just a hop from fully autonomous city vehicles, putting them all out of work forever.

petermcneeley 4y ago

Seems like a random excuse to Trash talk unions.

djtriptych 4y ago
Well, a union rep is quoted in the article, which was weird. His statement was also a little weird. The conclusions and the math involved don't really add up for me. They laid the groundwork for a fight against _any_ conversion to electric vehicles by warning the city council about the possibly prohibitive cost of installing a charger network... I'm not sure it's too outlandish to postulate that the union would act in their own interest here. I think any plan to convert to autonomous vehicles should include a plan for these workers. But I don't think you get to be Sanitation Commissioner in NYC without union support.
- petermcneeley 4y ago
  Perhaps the union organizers think this but it doesnt really make much sense given that the trains (subway) in NYC are the first thing I would automate and apparently still have drivers. Automating trash pick-up in NYC is probably harder than L5 autonomous driving.
  - djtriptych 4y ago
    It's hard now, but this is a 20 year plan to replace the fleet. Already a budget item for the city, and, possibly, the frontline for union concerns about automation.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> union pressure to slow the transition to electric vehicles, which is just a hop from fully autonomous city vehicles Wouldn’t this incentivise earlier fleet turnover to electric? If you’ve just bought an electric fleet, it’s tougher to justify turning it over again for autonomous only.

djtriptych 4y ago
Interesting wrinkle I'd have to think any fully electric car is a better target for autonomous retrofitting, because the drivetrain is already completely fly-by-wire? Using a random estimate, a $100,000/vehicle autonomous retrofit probably pays for itself in like a year. The initial outlay of let's say a half billion to replace the city's fleet with EVs is a much bigger hurdle.

redox99 4y ago

How is it just a hop from fully autonomous city vehicles? The sensor suite and software doesn't really care about the type of engine. Waymo's Chrysler Pacificas are hybrids in fact.