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I can’t imagine anyone buying a $3000 headset for “videoconferencing” as the killer feature. Would Apple build a VR headset & new operating system just to posi

by jitl 4y ago

I can’t imagine anyone buying a $3000 headset for “videoconferencing” as the killer feature. Would Apple build a VR headset & new operating system just to position it similarly to the Pro Display XDR? Because that’s what these rumors sound like - a super high end hardware for a very narrow professional market. I think the rumors must be getting at least one or two key elements very wrong because the overall picture doesn’t make much sense. Perhaps the rumors conflate an Apple VR Headset - Mass Market ($5XX) with an Apple VR Headset - Developer Kit ($3000)? On the subject of the belt battery pack, The Information reported that earlier prototypes used a power-tool LiIon battery at the waist; maybe this is incorrect holdover and we don’t see a production device that works that way?

jaywalk 4y ago
Plus who knows how much for the custom lenses needed if you wear glasses.
- bbbbb5 4y ago
  Would that necessarily cost way more than the custom lenses needed for glasses?
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Traditionally* VR lens fittings have been relatively affordable (Quest had them for <$100). That being said, this is Apple we're talking about here... are we perhaps getting a 'Lens Pro Max ME (Medical Edition)'?
- threeseed 4y ago
  It's likely you will choose the lenses up front. Similar to how when you buy an Apple Watch you choose the strap size.
  - jaywalk 4y ago
    You can't just "choose" prescription lenses. You need a valid prescription.
    - Ancapistani 4y ago
      That's... complicated. It depends on the state in the US.
    - threeseed 4y ago
      Sure but Apple can just have a range of lens types and you upload your prescription. How do you think people buy glasses online ?
- bpye 4y ago
  It says they are magnetic? I wonder if it'll be possible for third parties to make compatible lenses.
varenc 4y ago
This is usually how Apple enters/creates a new market. Many other follow the same strategy. They start with a very high end version that highlights their strengths and the product's potential. It will not have mass adoption and it won't make them money. If successful Apple will certainly roll out newer lower costing versions.
- cipixul 4y ago
  They certainly have the cash to subsidize a new market creation...
- happyopossum 4y ago
  > This is usually how Apple enters/creates a new market. They start with a very high end version that highlights their strengths and the product's potential iPad, AirPods, Apple Watch - none of those fit your criteria, and they’re the biggest launches apple has done post iPhone (which arguably also wasn’t high-priced, it just lacked carrier subsidies at launch).
  - varenc 4y ago
    I remember all of those products seeming really expensive at launch, though I see your point. They've all become a bit cheaper but not significantly. What's also changed is my perception of what a reasonable cost should be. Spending $150 on AirPods to replace my cheap earbuds used to seem absurd but now it feels more defensible. If AR is a huge success the price will certainly come down, but perhaps only 30%-50% and spending the equivalent of a new Macbook on a headset starts to feel more reasonable.
    - nickthegreek 4y ago
      While those items are expensive for market, they were still affordable for a large market segment. I purchased iphone, ipad, airpod, airpods pro, ipod all in the first year of them debuting. I doubt I would do that for a $3k VR set and I have spent over 400hrs in VR. I will need to let others prove the value on this system before I can jump in.
MivLives 4y ago
I can see people using these for work on virtual screens if the DPI is high enough and they're powerful enough. Already when I visit a coworking space I see people with a laptop up on a stand, a keyboard, a mouse, and ipad doing second monitor duty. That's close to 3k depending on the macbook and ipad they're using. This is pretty niche though.
- CoolGuySteve 4y ago
  Yeah if they can use the foviated rendering feature and iOS compatibility to make it look like my head's surrounded by various application windows with a sufficiently high resolution to read text in a browser/termina/slack/etc then I'd probably ditch my laptop. My 2.8lbs laptop is great for carrying around the city but its 13" screen leaves something to be desired when it comes to productivity.
smoldesu 4y ago
It all seems really odd, and the waist-mounted battery pack makes me question the credibility of this 'leak'. Apple won't let me plug in my headphones, but they will force me to wear a lithium-ion Walkman? It just doesn't make sense. The pricing is all wrong and the anticipation of a "killer app" seems way off-base. It's either a very confused product that probably shouldn't release, or a questionable leaker.
- threeseed 4y ago
  a) Apple lets you plug in your headphones. You just leave a 3.5mm adapter attached to them like most of us do. b) Given the complaints about the weight and poor battery life of the Meta Quest Pro there needs to be a better solution than trying to balance batteries on your head. Waist level pack makes a lot of sense especially since if you're sitting at a desk there is simply no need for batteries.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    > Apple lets you plug in your headphones. Do you know that for sure? How are we certain that the serial port isn't being used by the waist-mounted battery pack? > there needs to be a better solution than trying to balance them on your head. There is one - you plug it in. You can use all the Quest headsets while they're tethered to power if you want, it just defeats the purpose of owning a wireless headset. The battery life of those units will definitely last longer than your meeting, presuming the VR sickness doesn't hit you first. All-for-all, I have to believe this rumor is fake because Apple doesn't make products like this. If Apple does release a VR headset, I doubt it will look like what's described here.
    - threeseed 4y ago
      What's the point of having batteries on your head if they aren't being used. Lightweight headset connected via Thunderbolt 5 to a combined battery/CPU pack or desktop Mac.
      - 4y ago
HDThoreaun 4y ago
Really feels to me like microsoft is just in such a better position to capitalize on the enterprise use case stuff. They already have relationships with every large org and could conceivably include a headset as part of some office+ subscription. Apple has next to no enterprise business, but they're going to convince businesses to buy headsets for employees? Not buying it.
- f6v 4y ago
  > Apple has next to no enterprise business Some orgs I worked at had Mac as a standard machine. Not that Apple is in “enterprise business”, but they can sell hardware to some enterprises.
- Aaronstotle 4y ago
  Anecdotally, every company I've worked for has been 100% macOS exclusive. And practically every SWE I know is given a MacBook for work, so they definitely have some enterprise business.
- marvin_3050 4y ago
  Say we had a 1 dollar, 1 gram, 1000 DPI VR headset. How would that improve margins of businesses?
- threeseed 4y ago
  You seem to have a very old-school way of viewing the enterprise. With the cloud, SaaS, remote working etc. the days of central IT/Procurement departments dictating the technology mix across the organisation is long gone. Now employees are often bringing in new technologies and IT/Security are forced to scramble and figure out how to manage them. It's exactly what happened with the iPhone/iPad and now increasingly Macs as well.
  - HDThoreaun 4y ago
    > the days of central IT/Procurement departments dictating the technology mix across the organisation is long gone. No, they're really not. Maybe at some startups, but large organizations have too much to lose by allowing random software to be installed instead of a single suite like microsoft provides. As new programs appear microsoft will continue to copy or buy them and absorb them into office, and will continue to get more and more dominant in the enterprise productivity game.
codeflo 4y ago
Many Apple rumors come from various parts of the supply chain, which explains that they are often incomplete, but have a grain of truth. Regarding the battery pack, though, I don’t find that completely implausible. With some existing headsets, people have complained about discomfort from the weight of the headset. If a well-designed cable helps to reduce that significantly, why not?
Cushman 4y ago
> I can’t imagine anyone buying a $3000 headset for “videoconferencing” as the killer feature. Believe it. "Social presence"[0], the feeling of actually being in the room with another human being, is a very real phenomenon. Its influences are things like gaze following, head movements, hand gestures-- things flatscreen video chat has not and likely will never be able to capture veridically. Its impacts are things like empathy, affinity, trust-- things you very much care about when money is at stake. To be excessively glib, social presence is why deals are still being won by the firmer handshake, not the better term sheet. Can Apple deliver this today? Who knows. No one's done it outside of a lab before. But if they can, this isn't competing with video chat-- it's competing with airplanes. And if they can, $3000 is an unbeatable price. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_presence_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_presence_theory
- threeseed 4y ago
  > No one's done it outside of a lab before. Depends on the person. There are many videos [1] where people report that feeling of social presence e.g. whilst working in a virtual cafe. Question now is whether Apple/Meta can bring that feeling to everyone. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAA9hBwnQKQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAA9hBwnQKQ
  - Cushman 4y ago
    Indeed, and to clarify, it's not a binary feeling for anyone-- IRC is better than email, FaceTime is better than the telephone. VRChat is state of the art on prosumer hardware, but it's not competitive with the boardroom. Yet.
- deanc 4y ago
  Apple can’t even do realistic gesture tracking with their memojis on their highest end iOS devices. It’s appallingly bad and can pretty much only do a dozen or so expressions and with lag. I highly doubt their ability to do this in a more serious setting. There’s enough issues in video conferencing today with audio codec compression and video buffering and Bluetooth issues - I would not want to add an entirely virtual layer on top of that. “Can you hear me?” will be replaced by “are you angry?” when it mistranslates a facial expression. Miscommunication over digital medium (text) is already a huge issue.

by jitl 4y ago

jaywalk 4y ago

Plus who knows how much for the custom lenses needed if you wear glasses.

bbbbb5 4y ago
Would that necessarily cost way more than the custom lenses needed for glasses?
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Traditionally* VR lens fittings have been relatively affordable (Quest had them for <$100). That being said, this is Apple we're talking about here... are we perhaps getting a 'Lens Pro Max ME (Medical Edition)'?
threeseed 4y ago
It's likely you will choose the lenses up front. Similar to how when you buy an Apple Watch you choose the strap size.
- jaywalk 4y ago
  You can't just "choose" prescription lenses. You need a valid prescription.
  - Ancapistani 4y ago
    That's... complicated. It depends on the state in the US.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    Sure but Apple can just have a range of lens types and you upload your prescription. How do you think people buy glasses online ?
bpye 4y ago
It says they are magnetic? I wonder if it'll be possible for third parties to make compatible lenses.

varenc 4y ago

This is usually how Apple enters/creates a new market. Many other follow the same strategy. They start with a very high end version that highlights their strengths and the product's potential. It will not have mass adoption and it won't make them money. If successful Apple will certainly roll out newer lower costing versions.

cipixul 4y ago
They certainly have the cash to subsidize a new market creation...
happyopossum 4y ago
> This is usually how Apple enters/creates a new market. They start with a very high end version that highlights their strengths and the product's potential iPad, AirPods, Apple Watch - none of those fit your criteria, and they’re the biggest launches apple has done post iPhone (which arguably also wasn’t high-priced, it just lacked carrier subsidies at launch).
- varenc 4y ago
  I remember all of those products seeming really expensive at launch, though I see your point. They've all become a bit cheaper but not significantly. What's also changed is my perception of what a reasonable cost should be. Spending $150 on AirPods to replace my cheap earbuds used to seem absurd but now it feels more defensible. If AR is a huge success the price will certainly come down, but perhaps only 30%-50% and spending the equivalent of a new Macbook on a headset starts to feel more reasonable.
  - nickthegreek 4y ago
    While those items are expensive for market, they were still affordable for a large market segment. I purchased iphone, ipad, airpod, airpods pro, ipod all in the first year of them debuting. I doubt I would do that for a $3k VR set and I have spent over 400hrs in VR. I will need to let others prove the value on this system before I can jump in.

MivLives 4y ago

I can see people using these for work on virtual screens if the DPI is high enough and they're powerful enough. Already when I visit a coworking space I see people with a laptop up on a stand, a keyboard, a mouse, and ipad doing second monitor duty. That's close to 3k depending on the macbook and ipad they're using. This is pretty niche though.

CoolGuySteve 4y ago
Yeah if they can use the foviated rendering feature and iOS compatibility to make it look like my head's surrounded by various application windows with a sufficiently high resolution to read text in a browser/termina/slack/etc then I'd probably ditch my laptop. My 2.8lbs laptop is great for carrying around the city but its 13" screen leaves something to be desired when it comes to productivity.

smoldesu 4y ago

It all seems really odd, and the waist-mounted battery pack makes me question the credibility of this 'leak'. Apple won't let me plug in my headphones, but they will force me to wear a lithium-ion Walkman? It just doesn't make sense. The pricing is all wrong and the anticipation of a "killer app" seems way off-base. It's either a very confused product that probably shouldn't release, or a questionable leaker.

threeseed 4y ago
a) Apple lets you plug in your headphones. You just leave a 3.5mm adapter attached to them like most of us do. b) Given the complaints about the weight and poor battery life of the Meta Quest Pro there needs to be a better solution than trying to balance batteries on your head. Waist level pack makes a lot of sense especially since if you're sitting at a desk there is simply no need for batteries.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  > Apple lets you plug in your headphones. Do you know that for sure? How are we certain that the serial port isn't being used by the waist-mounted battery pack? > there needs to be a better solution than trying to balance them on your head. There is one - you plug it in. You can use all the Quest headsets while they're tethered to power if you want, it just defeats the purpose of owning a wireless headset. The battery life of those units will definitely last longer than your meeting, presuming the VR sickness doesn't hit you first. All-for-all, I have to believe this rumor is fake because Apple doesn't make products like this. If Apple does release a VR headset, I doubt it will look like what's described here.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    What's the point of having batteries on your head if they aren't being used. Lightweight headset connected via Thunderbolt 5 to a combined battery/CPU pack or desktop Mac.
    - 4y ago

HDThoreaun 4y ago

Really feels to me like microsoft is just in such a better position to capitalize on the enterprise use case stuff. They already have relationships with every large org and could conceivably include a headset as part of some office+ subscription. Apple has next to no enterprise business, but they're going to convince businesses to buy headsets for employees? Not buying it.

f6v 4y ago
> Apple has next to no enterprise business Some orgs I worked at had Mac as a standard machine. Not that Apple is in “enterprise business”, but they can sell hardware to some enterprises.
Aaronstotle 4y ago
Anecdotally, every company I've worked for has been 100% macOS exclusive. And practically every SWE I know is given a MacBook for work, so they definitely have some enterprise business.
marvin_3050 4y ago
Say we had a 1 dollar, 1 gram, 1000 DPI VR headset. How would that improve margins of businesses?
threeseed 4y ago
You seem to have a very old-school way of viewing the enterprise. With the cloud, SaaS, remote working etc. the days of central IT/Procurement departments dictating the technology mix across the organisation is long gone. Now employees are often bringing in new technologies and IT/Security are forced to scramble and figure out how to manage them. It's exactly what happened with the iPhone/iPad and now increasingly Macs as well.
- HDThoreaun 4y ago
  > the days of central IT/Procurement departments dictating the technology mix across the organisation is long gone. No, they're really not. Maybe at some startups, but large organizations have too much to lose by allowing random software to be installed instead of a single suite like microsoft provides. As new programs appear microsoft will continue to copy or buy them and absorb them into office, and will continue to get more and more dominant in the enterprise productivity game.

codeflo 4y ago

Many Apple rumors come from various parts of the supply chain, which explains that they are often incomplete, but have a grain of truth. Regarding the battery pack, though, I don’t find that completely implausible. With some existing headsets, people have complained about discomfort from the weight of the headset. If a well-designed cable helps to reduce that significantly, why not?

Cushman 4y ago

> I can’t imagine anyone buying a $3000 headset for “videoconferencing” as the killer feature. Believe it. "Social presence"[0], the feeling of actually being in the room with another human being, is a very real phenomenon. Its influences are things like gaze following, head movements, hand gestures-- things flatscreen video chat has not and likely will never be able to capture veridically. Its impacts are things like empathy, affinity, trust-- things you very much care about when money is at stake. To be excessively glib, social presence is why deals are still being won by the firmer handshake, not the better term sheet. Can Apple deliver this today? Who knows. No one's done it outside of a lab before. But if they can, this isn't competing with video chat-- it's competing with airplanes. And if they can, $3000 is an unbeatable price. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_presence_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_presence_theory

threeseed 4y ago
> No one's done it outside of a lab before. Depends on the person. There are many videos [1] where people report that feeling of social presence e.g. whilst working in a virtual cafe. Question now is whether Apple/Meta can bring that feeling to everyone. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAA9hBwnQKQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAA9hBwnQKQ
- Cushman 4y ago
  Indeed, and to clarify, it's not a binary feeling for anyone-- IRC is better than email, FaceTime is better than the telephone. VRChat is state of the art on prosumer hardware, but it's not competitive with the boardroom. Yet.
deanc 4y ago
Apple can’t even do realistic gesture tracking with their memojis on their highest end iOS devices. It’s appallingly bad and can pretty much only do a dozen or so expressions and with lag. I highly doubt their ability to do this in a more serious setting. There’s enough issues in video conferencing today with audio codec compression and video buffering and Bluetooth issues - I would not want to add an entirely virtual layer on top of that. “Can you hear me?” will be replaced by “are you angry?” when it mistranslates a facial expression. Miscommunication over digital medium (text) is already a huge issue.