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I remember looking into this a little bit and the conclusion seemed to be that for most garbage truck uses the range was not the limiting factor. Pickup time wa

I remember looking into this a little bit and the conclusion seemed to be that for most garbage truck uses the range was not the limiting factor. Pickup time was more important, and batteries are attractive given that most garbage pickup is stop-pickup-start-drive a short distance then stop again. In Seattle I believe I saw the longest route was less than 70 miles but I can't find a source. There was a purchase of battery garbage trucks with a range of 55 miles a few years ago. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/05/seattle-makes-history-with-electric-garbage-truck/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/05/seattle-makes-history-w... Caternary lines have always seemed like a good solution but there must be a good reason they aren't more popular. Also, garbage collection in NYC seems to be a weird mishmash of rules and providers. Again there must be a historical reason but from the outside it has never made sense to me. https://www.propublica.org/article/trashed-inside-the-deadly-world-of-private-garbage-collection https://www.propublica.org/article/trashed-inside-the-deadly...

wolverine876 4y ago
> Caternary lines have always seemed like a good solution but there must be a good reason they aren't more popular What reason?
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Ugly, expensive, maintenance headache. What's not to like... They are however more environmentally friendly than diesel engines and it works well if you only have a few well trafficked routes. But you can't do this for a whole city, and garbage trucks and snowplows need to go into every street, not just the main boulevards.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    Agreed on all points, though I notice everyone says they are so expensive and hard to maintain, but nobody cites anything (not a criticism - I have no idea myself). However, you don't need availability on every street, just enough to charge the vehicles sufficiently for the smaller streets.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      Arnhem in NL and Riga in Latvia, both cities I spend a lot of time in still have them, but I wonder for how long. They're pretty iconic but every few years there is debate about whether or not it is still worth it. Another problem I forgot to mention is that these systems are not very flexible in dealing with mishaps, you can't overtake another trolley bus so if one has a problem the whole system grinds to a halt. An ICE bus just goes around the obstacle and continues.
      - wolverine876 4y ago
        I agree about the trolleys on rails and obstacles, which I've seen for myself, but electric vehicles would likely have some battery and run on tires, allowing diversions from the route. Anyway, I'm guessing it's been considered and I'd love to see the study.
        jacquesm 4y ago
        I've been reading a bit more about it in the meantime: so, the trolley network in Arnhem is slowly diminishing in size, but it's still there and it will likely be there for quite a while to come. They are looking at ways to use a combination BEV / trolley system to allow the buses to recharge when they're on the line so they can depart from the route for longer stretches. The maneuvering in case of trouble situation is covered by a tiny diesel engine that can move the bus around to the point where it can reconnect to a working segment of the network. One problem with reducing the coverage is that it is relatively easy to take away the lines but the poles are in large chunks of concrete and not easy to remove at all.
        Robotbeat 4y ago
        I think that battery vehicles with substantial batteries (and so could be run on lines without ANY overhead infrastructure in a pinch) but that usually charge via overhead lines on a portion of the route is the ideal option. No charging time, no massive new infrastructure (the catenary only needed on a small fraction of total served lines) but also full flexibility. Actually better than fossil fuel variants which need usually to be refueled at the end of the shift at a depot or whatever.
PLenz 4y ago
Manhattan used to have hundreds of miles of street level trolley - but mostly powered by underground center third rail because overhead wires just didn't work with the density of lines and equipment. When the system needed to be cleared after snowfalls they used horses and later ICE trucks to plow. See any book on the Third Avenue Railway system for details

wolverine876 4y ago

> Caternary lines have always seemed like a good solution but there must be a good reason they aren't more popular What reason?

jacquesm 4y ago
Ugly, expensive, maintenance headache. What's not to like... They are however more environmentally friendly than diesel engines and it works well if you only have a few well trafficked routes. But you can't do this for a whole city, and garbage trucks and snowplows need to go into every street, not just the main boulevards.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  Agreed on all points, though I notice everyone says they are so expensive and hard to maintain, but nobody cites anything (not a criticism - I have no idea myself). However, you don't need availability on every street, just enough to charge the vehicles sufficiently for the smaller streets.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Arnhem in NL and Riga in Latvia, both cities I spend a lot of time in still have them, but I wonder for how long. They're pretty iconic but every few years there is debate about whether or not it is still worth it. Another problem I forgot to mention is that these systems are not very flexible in dealing with mishaps, you can't overtake another trolley bus so if one has a problem the whole system grinds to a halt. An ICE bus just goes around the obstacle and continues.
    - wolverine876 4y ago
      I agree about the trolleys on rails and obstacles, which I've seen for myself, but electric vehicles would likely have some battery and run on tires, allowing diversions from the route. Anyway, I'm guessing it's been considered and I'd love to see the study.
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        I've been reading a bit more about it in the meantime: so, the trolley network in Arnhem is slowly diminishing in size, but it's still there and it will likely be there for quite a while to come. They are looking at ways to use a combination BEV / trolley system to allow the buses to recharge when they're on the line so they can depart from the route for longer stretches. The maneuvering in case of trouble situation is covered by a tiny diesel engine that can move the bus around to the point where it can reconnect to a working segment of the network. One problem with reducing the coverage is that it is relatively easy to take away the lines but the poles are in large chunks of concrete and not easy to remove at all.
        Robotbeat 4y ago
        I think that battery vehicles with substantial batteries (and so could be run on lines without ANY overhead infrastructure in a pinch) but that usually charge via overhead lines on a portion of the route is the ideal option. No charging time, no massive new infrastructure (the catenary only needed on a small fraction of total served lines) but also full flexibility. Actually better than fossil fuel variants which need usually to be refueled at the end of the shift at a depot or whatever.

PLenz 4y ago

Manhattan used to have hundreds of miles of street level trolley - but mostly powered by underground center third rail because overhead wires just didn't work with the density of lines and equipment. When the system needed to be cleared after snowfalls they used horses and later ICE trucks to plow. See any book on the Third Avenue Railway system for details