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Garbage trucks are probably one of the best places for it actually, because they stop so frequently. Unfortunately the article is about plow trucks instead whic

Garbage trucks are probably one of the best places for it actually, because they stop so frequently. Unfortunately the article is about plow trucks instead which have a very different use case - New York just happens to use the same vehicles for both so they have a smaller fleet that's not as well suited to either task. For garbage trucks you have stop and go movement so EVs eliminate idling. Given the size of the trucks it's probably not a big deal to make sure they have adequate battery capacity. Plow trucks have a completely different use model where they're run at speed for long periods and one day of plowing could have the same distance traveled as weeks of trash collection. Hybrids would likely be an improvement in efficiency but the same way they do for other trucks - batteries support high demand periods while the generator is fine for the lower sustained loads. Edit: a drawback of the smaller fleet for snow management is that garbage trucks aren't as well suited for salt/sand/deicer distribution. Nobody designs their garbage trucks to spray. I hope. Edit2: garbage trucks also have a lot of additional mechanical systems that are probably already electrical, so among other things the ICE versions likely have an oversized alternator to power that.

makestuff 4y ago
Seems like plug in hybrid is the best approach with current tech. Battery in the neighborhoods, and gas powered when you are hauling it back to the landfill.
- fencepost 4y ago
  Maybe. Others have talked about the problems with hybrids and they might not make as much sense as simply expanding either the fleet as a whole or the parts of the fleet used for plowing. Also worth considering the city's whole vehicle fleet - use the garbage trucks as appropriate for mass response, but also use dump trucks, etc from public works. Eventually there may also be more options with battery swapping - that's a lot more feasible with a fleet within a relatively small geographic region.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
akira2501 4y ago
> so EVs eliminate idling. The vehicle, when stopped, has other functions to perform. It has hydraulic lifters and compactors that need quite a bit of power to operate. It's a working platform, not a simple garbage transportation mechanism. Even to the extent is isn't for transportation, see how far away the dump is from your home. That distance has to be covered twice at least once a day, and possibly as much as 3 times per day.. and during one of those legs the truck is fully loaded with possibly up to as much as 20,000lbs of trash. Finally, they have to operate in all conditions, in both very low and very high temperatures. The logistics of this aren't as simple as it would be for a standard vehicle.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  Somewhere as densely populated as NY is surely best served by those rubbish bins that empty into a trash vacuum tunnel. Massive upfront cost (infrastructure and NY seems to be a bit fraught) and also likely expensive to run, but with high population density it’s got to be better. However this would then have a fleet of snow trucks that weren’t used 99% of the time, as the rubbish was mostly sorted. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_vacuum_collection https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_vacuum_collection
  - StrictDabbler 4y ago
    "[A] bit fraught" is an understatement. Any excavation under the right of way in New York immediately runs into undocumented tunnels, steam conduits, sewers, and water pipelines from the past 400 years of development. They're trying to map these things out but it will probably take more than a decade. Until that happens you can't even begin to budget for a new city-wide underground infrastructure project. Any project has to be point to point and focused. Let alone the issue of the rats. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-08-10/nobody-knows-what-lies-beneath-new-york-city https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-08-10/nobody-kn...
  - TylerE 4y ago
    Between the subways, underground rail lines, etc, you’d probably have to put them 100ft underground to get clearance. That’s 100ft through solid rock. Great for building skyscrapers, not fun for digging. Ironically one of the largest vacuum trays system in the world IS in NYC… but it serves Roosevelt Island, not the “mainland”
to11mtm 4y ago
Around here, a notable number of Garbage trucks are LPG or some variant [1]. Having driven a Hybrid 'Truck' (really more of a ute[2]) for just under a year, I can say that EV plows will likely show their deficiencies when you need them the most [3]. [1] - On the whole, this is still better than doing nothing with it and just allowing it to vent, or burning on-site (which, sometimes you do see at local landfills.) [2] - The Maverick -does- do a decent job IMO of showing what's possible with a small purpose-built hybrid truck or truck-like thing; However manufacturers that make bigger EVs are likely reluctant to build a truly 'minimum viable product', as it will bite into fleet sales of larger EV/Hybrids introduced. [3] - Recently, we had sustained sub 10F temps. My overall mileage went from 35-42MPG to 25-30MPG.
- scythe 4y ago
  >EV plows will likely show their deficiencies when you need them the most Not necessarily. The heaviest snow falls just below freezing. Very low temperatures bring light, fluffy stuff — the kind skiers crave, and that a human can lift huge shovels of.
- fencepost 4y ago
  a notable number of Garbage trucks are LPG or some variant Be interesting if they're able to clean/compress/use methane produced by the dump itself instead of having it flared off - or drive a generator tied into battery charging. It really needs to be burned instead of just being released as-is, might as well get use from it.
pimlottc 4y ago
It’s also great for noise reduction, particular since they often run in the mornings.

makestuff 4y ago

Seems like plug in hybrid is the best approach with current tech. Battery in the neighborhoods, and gas powered when you are hauling it back to the landfill.

fencepost 4y ago
Maybe. Others have talked about the problems with hybrids and they might not make as much sense as simply expanding either the fleet as a whole or the parts of the fleet used for plowing. Also worth considering the city's whole vehicle fleet - use the garbage trucks as appropriate for mass response, but also use dump trucks, etc from public works. Eventually there may also be more options with battery swapping - that's a lot more feasible with a fleet within a relatively small geographic region.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

akira2501 4y ago

> so EVs eliminate idling. The vehicle, when stopped, has other functions to perform. It has hydraulic lifters and compactors that need quite a bit of power to operate. It's a working platform, not a simple garbage transportation mechanism. Even to the extent is isn't for transportation, see how far away the dump is from your home. That distance has to be covered twice at least once a day, and possibly as much as 3 times per day.. and during one of those legs the truck is fully loaded with possibly up to as much as 20,000lbs of trash. Finally, they have to operate in all conditions, in both very low and very high temperatures. The logistics of this aren't as simple as it would be for a standard vehicle.

lostlogin 4y ago
Somewhere as densely populated as NY is surely best served by those rubbish bins that empty into a trash vacuum tunnel. Massive upfront cost (infrastructure and NY seems to be a bit fraught) and also likely expensive to run, but with high population density it’s got to be better. However this would then have a fleet of snow trucks that weren’t used 99% of the time, as the rubbish was mostly sorted. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_vacuum_collection https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_vacuum_collection
- StrictDabbler 4y ago
  "[A] bit fraught" is an understatement. Any excavation under the right of way in New York immediately runs into undocumented tunnels, steam conduits, sewers, and water pipelines from the past 400 years of development. They're trying to map these things out but it will probably take more than a decade. Until that happens you can't even begin to budget for a new city-wide underground infrastructure project. Any project has to be point to point and focused. Let alone the issue of the rats. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-08-10/nobody-knows-what-lies-beneath-new-york-city https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-08-10/nobody-kn...
- TylerE 4y ago
  Between the subways, underground rail lines, etc, you’d probably have to put them 100ft underground to get clearance. That’s 100ft through solid rock. Great for building skyscrapers, not fun for digging. Ironically one of the largest vacuum trays system in the world IS in NYC… but it serves Roosevelt Island, not the “mainland”

to11mtm 4y ago

Around here, a notable number of Garbage trucks are LPG or some variant [1]. Having driven a Hybrid 'Truck' (really more of a ute[2]) for just under a year, I can say that EV plows will likely show their deficiencies when you need them the most [3]. [1] - On the whole, this is still better than doing nothing with it and just allowing it to vent, or burning on-site (which, sometimes you do see at local landfills.) [2] - The Maverick -does- do a decent job IMO of showing what's possible with a small purpose-built hybrid truck or truck-like thing; However manufacturers that make bigger EVs are likely reluctant to build a truly 'minimum viable product', as it will bite into fleet sales of larger EV/Hybrids introduced. [3] - Recently, we had sustained sub 10F temps. My overall mileage went from 35-42MPG to 25-30MPG.

scythe 4y ago
>EV plows will likely show their deficiencies when you need them the most Not necessarily. The heaviest snow falls just below freezing. Very low temperatures bring light, fluffy stuff — the kind skiers crave, and that a human can lift huge shovels of.
fencepost 4y ago
a notable number of Garbage trucks are LPG or some variant Be interesting if they're able to clean/compress/use methane produced by the dump itself instead of having it flared off - or drive a generator tied into battery charging. It really needs to be burned instead of just being released as-is, might as well get use from it.

pimlottc 4y ago

It’s also great for noise reduction, particular since they often run in the mornings.