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I have returned a product that did not do C2C charging and sent the company a support request about it. It required quoting the USB spec sheet and requesting th

I have returned a product that did not do C2C charging and sent the company a support request about it. It required quoting the USB spec sheet and requesting they sent it to the appropriate product development department and eventually since there is nothing they can do then I congratulated the product manager on getting their bonus for reducing BOM costs by less than a few cents a unit at the expense of (I) a returned unit which must be sold at a loss, (II) a detailed review of why their product is indicative of a company which does not care about its customer's needs if it makes them a tiny bit more money, and (III) a tarnished brand in my eyes. I hope it was worth it. It was an Altec Lansing bluetooth speaker by the way.

johnwalkr 4y ago
I doubt it was a matter of reducing the BOM cost but rather a junior engineer updating an old product. Good move to push them, however. Far too many usb-c devices don't work properly.
- mmoskal 4y ago
  Right, you can get 100 resistors for (literally) a few cents :)
  - connicpu 4y ago
    Even better the higher volume you go. On DigiKey right now, a reel of 100,000 5K1 resistors is literally $105.00. At two per USB-C port, that's a unit cost of 0.21 cents per device. Literally a fifth of a penny! Plus maybe a few extra seconds spent by the industrial sized pick-n-place machine on each device
    - kurthr 4y ago
      Indeed, at high volume the cost of stuffing/testing is comparable to the cost of the part ~1mil=$/1000. Actually, cost can increase more significantly if the number of different components increases too much (and inventory is more annoying) so it may be cheaper to stuff 2 or more of the same component rather than have more different values. Of course nobody really cares about this, if you're making less than ~100k/mo since setup costs dominate. A single line can do ~250k/mo running 24 hours. If the line runs less than 8h/day, they'll turn it off and/or switch to a different product on that line each month, which can cost multiple $k.
      - connicpu 4y ago
        I wonder if the existence of USB-C has significantly increased the number of 5K1 resistors being used. Even on my own projects where I'm manually soldering maybe a couple boards I tend to just pick 5K1s out of part ordering convenience when I just need like an I²C pullup or something, since I'll be using them anyways with the USB charge/debug port
FeistySkink 4y ago
I'd rather buy something with a micro USB at this point, than something that doesn't do proper USB PD. At least you definitely know that you need a different cable.
- Eisenstein 4y ago
  I got one of these (and some of the creator's other tester boards) and it has proven very useful: * https://www.tindie.com/products/cuvoodoo/usb-c-cable-tester/ https://www.tindie.com/products/cuvoodoo/usb-c-cable-tester/ I mounted it in a little clear case back to back with the microUSB tester board. The battery should effectively last for a decade. There are multiple other similar boards on tindie for comparable prices. I picked based on being able to consolidate shipping price for multiple units; make sure to check where it ships from and how much if you only plan on getting one board.
  - ryanianian 4y ago
    "This seller is taking a break until Feb. 9, 2023" - any good alternatives in the mean-time? (Tindie has a couple as you mention, just looking for specific recs.) Searching for "usb c cable tester" on every major search engine pretty much solely returns port testers despite "cable tester" being in quotes. The product category must be pretty stark (and my god do search engines suck now). I'm also pondering a way to mark my cables with the results of this thing. Color bands (like resitors) with nail polish or something?
    - Eisenstein 4y ago
      I have heard good things about this one: * https://www.tindie.com/products/petl/usb-c-cable-tester-c2c-caberqu/ https://www.tindie.com/products/petl/usb-c-cable-tester-c2c-... but I have no experience with it, so I can't recommend it personally. You should ask on the /r/usbchardware subreddit. They are generally a friendly bunch and have experience with these exact use-cases. EDIT: re:color code marking: * https://sa.lj.am/usbccccc/ https://sa.lj.am/usbccccc/
    - kalleboo 4y ago

johnwalkr 4y ago

I doubt it was a matter of reducing the BOM cost but rather a junior engineer updating an old product. Good move to push them, however. Far too many usb-c devices don't work properly.

mmoskal 4y ago
Right, you can get 100 resistors for (literally) a few cents :)
- connicpu 4y ago
  Even better the higher volume you go. On DigiKey right now, a reel of 100,000 5K1 resistors is literally $105.00. At two per USB-C port, that's a unit cost of 0.21 cents per device. Literally a fifth of a penny! Plus maybe a few extra seconds spent by the industrial sized pick-n-place machine on each device
  - kurthr 4y ago
    Indeed, at high volume the cost of stuffing/testing is comparable to the cost of the part ~1mil=$/1000. Actually, cost can increase more significantly if the number of different components increases too much (and inventory is more annoying) so it may be cheaper to stuff 2 or more of the same component rather than have more different values. Of course nobody really cares about this, if you're making less than ~100k/mo since setup costs dominate. A single line can do ~250k/mo running 24 hours. If the line runs less than 8h/day, they'll turn it off and/or switch to a different product on that line each month, which can cost multiple $k.
    - connicpu 4y ago
      I wonder if the existence of USB-C has significantly increased the number of 5K1 resistors being used. Even on my own projects where I'm manually soldering maybe a couple boards I tend to just pick 5K1s out of part ordering convenience when I just need like an I²C pullup or something, since I'll be using them anyways with the USB charge/debug port

FeistySkink 4y ago

I'd rather buy something with a micro USB at this point, than something that doesn't do proper USB PD. At least you definitely know that you need a different cable.

Eisenstein 4y ago
I got one of these (and some of the creator's other tester boards) and it has proven very useful: * https://www.tindie.com/products/cuvoodoo/usb-c-cable-tester/ https://www.tindie.com/products/cuvoodoo/usb-c-cable-tester/ I mounted it in a little clear case back to back with the microUSB tester board. The battery should effectively last for a decade. There are multiple other similar boards on tindie for comparable prices. I picked based on being able to consolidate shipping price for multiple units; make sure to check where it ships from and how much if you only plan on getting one board.
- ryanianian 4y ago
  "This seller is taking a break until Feb. 9, 2023" - any good alternatives in the mean-time? (Tindie has a couple as you mention, just looking for specific recs.) Searching for "usb c cable tester" on every major search engine pretty much solely returns port testers despite "cable tester" being in quotes. The product category must be pretty stark (and my god do search engines suck now). I'm also pondering a way to mark my cables with the results of this thing. Color bands (like resitors) with nail polish or something?
  - Eisenstein 4y ago
    I have heard good things about this one: * https://www.tindie.com/products/petl/usb-c-cable-tester-c2c-caberqu/ https://www.tindie.com/products/petl/usb-c-cable-tester-c2c-... but I have no experience with it, so I can't recommend it personally. You should ask on the /r/usbchardware subreddit. They are generally a friendly bunch and have experience with these exact use-cases. EDIT: re:color code marking: * https://sa.lj.am/usbccccc/ https://sa.lj.am/usbccccc/
  - kalleboo 4y ago