7 ms·

garbage in, garbage out.

by waynesonfire 4y ago

junon 4y ago
No. That doesn't stand up anymore in this case.
- lolinder 4y ago
  Why would ChatGPT be the exception to the rule? What architecture are they using that somehow is immune to unwanted trends in the training data? If you're going to make an outlandish claim like that, I'd like to see some arguments to back it up.
  - ALittleLight 4y ago
    ChatGPT can give you bad answers to good questions or good answers to nonsense questions. With ChatGPT it's more like "sometimes garbage".
    - dpkirchner 4y ago
      The garbage is in the source material used to create the model, not the questions.
      - ALittleLight 4y ago
        Same comment still applies. ChatGPT sometimes gives good and bad answers.
        dpkirchner 4y ago
        I'd argue that level of ambiguity counts as garbage out, although I'm confident it will get better.
        JoeAltmaier 4y ago
        In fact ChatGPT doesn't know anything about true and false. It's just generating text that most closely resembles text it's seen on similar subjects. E.g. ask it about the molecular description for anything. It'll start with something fundamental like the CH3N4 etc then describe the bonds. But the bonds will be a mishmash of many chemical descriptions thrown together. Because similar questions had that kind of answer. The worst part is, it blurts forth with perfect confidence. I liken it to a blowhard acquaintance that will make up crap about any technical subject they have a few words for, as if they are an expert. It's funny except when somebody relies on it as truth. I don't think GPT3 at its heart is an expert at anything. Except generating likely-looking text. There's no 'superego' involved anywhere that audits the output for truthfulness. And certainly no logical understanding of what it's saying.
        robswc 4y ago
        I love ChatGPT for simple tasks. It is currently wreaking havoc on some communities tho. Including one I created on reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/pinescript/comments/1029r7p/please_no_more_chatgpt_generated_scripts/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pinescript/comments/1029r7p/please_... People have taken to asking ChatGPT to create entire scripts to trade money. When they don't work, they go into chatrooms or forums and ask "why doesn't this work" without saying it was made by ChatGPT. It causes people to open the post, read it a bit and only maybe after a minute or two of wasted time, realize the script is complete nonsense.
      - lobocinza 4y ago
        More likely due to lack of "good" data than to existence of "bad" data. ChatGPT is know for its ability to "hallucinate" answers for questions that it wasn't trained for.
  - blacksmith_tb 4y ago
    Well, it's more like a puree of garbage and quality stuff, so you are never quite sure what you'll get in each bite...
    - Xelynega 4y ago
      Garbage interspersed in the input, garbage interspersed in the output.
- waynesonfire 4y ago
  Why? chatgpt has certainly consumed seo spam and company marketing materials as part of it's model. Even if a human went through it, there still exists a bias towards this information. After all, this material is specifically written to fool humans. I've played with chatgpt enough to notice that for some queries it's fundamentally doing an auto-summarize of such content. Consider this. Someone very early posted that a neat feature of chatgpt would be to give chatgpt a list of ISBN numbers and then demand it's answers are cited from this corpus. We're not there yet but this would be amazing. My prediction is that those with money will have power to influence their chat bot. Consequently, they'll have access a higher-quality and wider corpus of information. There will not be any restrictions on how chatgpt would answer due to for example, woke agendas. Also, players such as Goldman Sachs would feed their model content generated by their analyst that consumers would not have access to. This already happens but chatgpt will make this information so much more potent. Furthermore, as this technology continues to improve it will increase the productivity of our population and ultimately generate higher GDP. I'm super excited.
  - wizzwizz4 4y ago
    > Consider this. Someone very early posted that a neat feature of chatgpt would be to give chatgpt a list of ISBN numbers and then demand it's answers are cited from this corpus. We're not there yet but this would be amazing. It currently has the ability to do this. It'll make the citations up, of course – but that behaviour is inherent to the architecture; a system that didn't do that would have to work differently at a fundamental level. > chatgpt will make this information so much more potent. How do you imagine this would work? > and ultimately generate higher GDP. Again, how do you imagine this would work? GDP is a specific economic measure; how would (a better version of) this technology increase GDP? Tangentially: why is "increase GDP" a good ultimate goal to have in the first place?
    - waynesonfire 4y ago
      >> chatgpt will make this information so much more potent. > How do you imagine this would work? Don't overthink it. It's just the nature of the tool. Imagine you're a detective trying to investigate a crime, - "list the plates of blue hondas in this area at this time, that have a missing rear bumper and a scratched driver side door" - "send a notifications to all gas stations along this route and notify them of a blue honda" And, if you're a Goldman Sachs analyst, you can just use natural language to gather information. "i have this scenario, list companies that will benefit" would be an abstract question that you'd ask it. Obivously, the system isn't this good yet but you get the idea. You'd just have to ask more fine grained questions and use some of your domain knowledge to fill the gap until it does become this good. >> and ultimately generate higher GDP. > Again, how do you imagine this would work? GDP is a specific economic measure; how would (a better version of) this technology increase GDP? Google (or chat gpt) would do a better job than me answering this, "Increases in productivity allow firms to produce greater output for the same level of input, earn higher revenues, and ultimately generate higher Gross Domestic Product." The reason you want to increase gdp... the following quote was derived from one of Herbert Hoover’s memoirs. "[Engineering] It is a great profession. There is the satisfaction of watching a figment of the imagination emerge through the aid of science to a plan on paper. Then it moves to realization in stone or metal or energy. Then it brings jobs and homes to men. Then it elevates the standards of living and adds to the comforts of life. That is the engineer’s high privilege." By increasing GDP, you elevate the standard of living and add to the comfort of life.

garbage in, garbage out.

junon 4y ago

No. That doesn't stand up anymore in this case.

lolinder 4y ago
Why would ChatGPT be the exception to the rule? What architecture are they using that somehow is immune to unwanted trends in the training data? If you're going to make an outlandish claim like that, I'd like to see some arguments to back it up.
- ALittleLight 4y ago
  ChatGPT can give you bad answers to good questions or good answers to nonsense questions. With ChatGPT it's more like "sometimes garbage".
  - dpkirchner 4y ago
    The garbage is in the source material used to create the model, not the questions.
    - ALittleLight 4y ago
      Same comment still applies. ChatGPT sometimes gives good and bad answers.
      - dpkirchner 4y ago
        I'd argue that level of ambiguity counts as garbage out, although I'm confident it will get better.
      - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
        In fact ChatGPT doesn't know anything about true and false. It's just generating text that most closely resembles text it's seen on similar subjects. E.g. ask it about the molecular description for anything. It'll start with something fundamental like the CH3N4 etc then describe the bonds. But the bonds will be a mishmash of many chemical descriptions thrown together. Because similar questions had that kind of answer. The worst part is, it blurts forth with perfect confidence. I liken it to a blowhard acquaintance that will make up crap about any technical subject they have a few words for, as if they are an expert. It's funny except when somebody relies on it as truth. I don't think GPT3 at its heart is an expert at anything. Except generating likely-looking text. There's no 'superego' involved anywhere that audits the output for truthfulness. And certainly no logical understanding of what it's saying.
        robswc 4y ago
        I love ChatGPT for simple tasks. It is currently wreaking havoc on some communities tho. Including one I created on reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/pinescript/comments/1029r7p/please_no_more_chatgpt_generated_scripts/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pinescript/comments/1029r7p/please_... People have taken to asking ChatGPT to create entire scripts to trade money. When they don't work, they go into chatrooms or forums and ask "why doesn't this work" without saying it was made by ChatGPT. It causes people to open the post, read it a bit and only maybe after a minute or two of wasted time, realize the script is complete nonsense.
    - lobocinza 4y ago
      More likely due to lack of "good" data than to existence of "bad" data. ChatGPT is know for its ability to "hallucinate" answers for questions that it wasn't trained for.
- blacksmith_tb 4y ago
  Well, it's more like a puree of garbage and quality stuff, so you are never quite sure what you'll get in each bite...
  - Xelynega 4y ago
    Garbage interspersed in the input, garbage interspersed in the output.
waynesonfire 4y ago
Why? chatgpt has certainly consumed seo spam and company marketing materials as part of it's model. Even if a human went through it, there still exists a bias towards this information. After all, this material is specifically written to fool humans. I've played with chatgpt enough to notice that for some queries it's fundamentally doing an auto-summarize of such content. Consider this. Someone very early posted that a neat feature of chatgpt would be to give chatgpt a list of ISBN numbers and then demand it's answers are cited from this corpus. We're not there yet but this would be amazing. My prediction is that those with money will have power to influence their chat bot. Consequently, they'll have access a higher-quality and wider corpus of information. There will not be any restrictions on how chatgpt would answer due to for example, woke agendas. Also, players such as Goldman Sachs would feed their model content generated by their analyst that consumers would not have access to. This already happens but chatgpt will make this information so much more potent. Furthermore, as this technology continues to improve it will increase the productivity of our population and ultimately generate higher GDP. I'm super excited.
- wizzwizz4 4y ago
  > Consider this. Someone very early posted that a neat feature of chatgpt would be to give chatgpt a list of ISBN numbers and then demand it's answers are cited from this corpus. We're not there yet but this would be amazing. It currently has the ability to do this. It'll make the citations up, of course – but that behaviour is inherent to the architecture; a system that didn't do that would have to work differently at a fundamental level. > chatgpt will make this information so much more potent. How do you imagine this would work? > and ultimately generate higher GDP. Again, how do you imagine this would work? GDP is a specific economic measure; how would (a better version of) this technology increase GDP? Tangentially: why is "increase GDP" a good ultimate goal to have in the first place?
  - waynesonfire 4y ago
    >> chatgpt will make this information so much more potent. > How do you imagine this would work? Don't overthink it. It's just the nature of the tool. Imagine you're a detective trying to investigate a crime, - "list the plates of blue hondas in this area at this time, that have a missing rear bumper and a scratched driver side door" - "send a notifications to all gas stations along this route and notify them of a blue honda" And, if you're a Goldman Sachs analyst, you can just use natural language to gather information. "i have this scenario, list companies that will benefit" would be an abstract question that you'd ask it. Obivously, the system isn't this good yet but you get the idea. You'd just have to ask more fine grained questions and use some of your domain knowledge to fill the gap until it does become this good. >> and ultimately generate higher GDP. > Again, how do you imagine this would work? GDP is a specific economic measure; how would (a better version of) this technology increase GDP? Google (or chat gpt) would do a better job than me answering this, "Increases in productivity allow firms to produce greater output for the same level of input, earn higher revenues, and ultimately generate higher Gross Domestic Product." The reason you want to increase gdp... the following quote was derived from one of Herbert Hoover’s memoirs. "[Engineering] It is a great profession. There is the satisfaction of watching a figment of the imagination emerge through the aid of science to a plan on paper. Then it moves to realization in stone or metal or energy. Then it brings jobs and homes to men. Then it elevates the standards of living and adds to the comforts of life. That is the engineer’s high privilege." By increasing GDP, you elevate the standard of living and add to the comfort of life.