3 ms·

> They described the details of an investigation of a promising anti-obesity medication in teenagers, a group that is notoriously resistant to such treatment. T

by Izkata 4y ago

> They described the details of an investigation of a promising anti-obesity medication in teenagers, a group that is notoriously resistant to such treatment. The results astonished researchers: a weekly injection for almost 16 months, along with some lifestyle changes, reduced body weight by at least 20% in more than one-third of the participants1. Previous studies2,3 had shown that the drug, semaglutide, was just as impressive in adults. Two immediate thoughts: How much of it was actually the lifestyle changes? It would be more interesting if there were no lifestyle changes... This apparently works by suppressing appetite, but doesn't cocaine do the same thing? Constant needle marks from weekly injections might result in more social complications than anything else...

ceejayoz 4y ago
> How much of it was actually the lifestyle changes? That's why the placebo group in the trial also gets the same lifestyle changes. > This apparently works by suppressing appetite, but doesn't cocaine do the same thing? Sure. If they were otherwise identical, that'd be a good point, but they're not. > Constant needle marks from weekly injections might result in more social complications than anything else... My daughter has to give herself growth hormone injections every day, and has for nearly a decade now. You don't get needle marks from these sorts of small dosage subcutaneous injection.
- Izkata 4y ago
  > You don't get needle marks from these sorts of small dosage subcutaneous injection. Ah, my only experience is with things like vaccines and drawing blood; those marks last around a week on me.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Yeah, it's very different; vaccinations are generally much deeper (into muscle), and drawing blood punctures a vein causing leakage into the surrounding tissue. Daily injections can leave a little under-the-skin scarring (feels a little like cellulite) so you have to vary the site a bit, but for most folks that's the worst of it. Well worth it for these sorts of results.
- carrotcarrot 4y ago
  > Sure. If they were otherwise identical, that'd be a good point, but they're not. You can say the same of opium, heroin, morphine, oxycodone, fentanyl, and Naloxone. Many of which have had i ical trials done and all of which are abused and addictive. I simply don't trust clinical trials by large pharmaceutical companies any longer.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    > You can say the same of opium, heroin, morphine, oxycodone, fentanyl, and Naloxone. Many of which have had i ical trials done and all of which are abused and addictive. Cocaine isn't a viable weight-loss drug because its downsides outweigh the benefits. The downsides of semaglutide and tirzepatide are nothing like that of cocaine, and thus the calculus works out better for them. > You can say the same of opium, heroin, morphine, oxycodone, fentanyl, and Naloxone. Setting aside the fact that including naloxone in that list is a bit bizarre - it counteracts the rest of the list, everyone should have some in their first aid kit - those medications have benefits that make them sometimes appropriate clinically. (Similarly, cocaine is used medically and in a very controlled fashion in rare cases, like persistent bad nosebleeds.)
  - kens 4y ago
    You say that Naloxone is abused and addictive? That is completely wrong. Naloxone has no addictive potential and has no potential for abuse. I think you have it confused with something else. Ref: https://www.asam.org/docs/default-source/public-policy-statements/use-of-naloxone-for-the-prevention-of-opioid-overdose-deaths-final.pdf https://www.asam.org/docs/default-source/public-policy-state...
Someone1234 4y ago
> How much of it was actually the lifestyle changes? It would be more interesting if there were no lifestyle changes... The article answers this further down: > Those receiving weekly injections of semaglutide lost, on average, 14.9% of their body weight after 16 months of treatment; those who received a placebo lost 2.4% on average. Per the article still a lot of work to do in this area, but on the face of it this could be an alternative to bariatric surgery for 1/3 of people.
- __blockcipher__ 4y ago
  The line you quoted: > Those receiving weekly injections of semaglutide lost, on average, 14.9% of their body weight after 16 months of treatment; those who received a placebo lost 2.4% on average. Doesn't really have anything to do with the question about lifestyle changes. That question basically centers around whether the 14.9% weight loss occurred independent of or as a result of lifestyle changes downstream from the semaglutide.
  - djur 4y ago
    To the extent that lifestyle changes include "not eating as much", it seems self-evident that the weight loss was the result of lifestyle changes. A drug that makes it easier to stick with a diet is a huge deal!
smith7018 4y ago
Cocaine does the same thing but it only lasts ~20 minutes. Ozempic is a once a week injection that curbs appetite and makes the user feel fuller faster. It also comes in a pen (like an epipen) and is injected into fat stores so the user probably won't have "track marks."
- djur 4y ago
  Also, these medications aren't stimulants, which is really important for people who might be at higher risk for heart issues.

by Izkata 4y ago

ceejayoz 4y ago

> How much of it was actually the lifestyle changes? That's why the placebo group in the trial also gets the same lifestyle changes. > This apparently works by suppressing appetite, but doesn't cocaine do the same thing? Sure. If they were otherwise identical, that'd be a good point, but they're not. > Constant needle marks from weekly injections might result in more social complications than anything else... My daughter has to give herself growth hormone injections every day, and has for nearly a decade now. You don't get needle marks from these sorts of small dosage subcutaneous injection.

Izkata 4y ago
> You don't get needle marks from these sorts of small dosage subcutaneous injection. Ah, my only experience is with things like vaccines and drawing blood; those marks last around a week on me.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Yeah, it's very different; vaccinations are generally much deeper (into muscle), and drawing blood punctures a vein causing leakage into the surrounding tissue. Daily injections can leave a little under-the-skin scarring (feels a little like cellulite) so you have to vary the site a bit, but for most folks that's the worst of it. Well worth it for these sorts of results.
carrotcarrot 4y ago
> Sure. If they were otherwise identical, that'd be a good point, but they're not. You can say the same of opium, heroin, morphine, oxycodone, fentanyl, and Naloxone. Many of which have had i ical trials done and all of which are abused and addictive. I simply don't trust clinical trials by large pharmaceutical companies any longer.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  > You can say the same of opium, heroin, morphine, oxycodone, fentanyl, and Naloxone. Many of which have had i ical trials done and all of which are abused and addictive. Cocaine isn't a viable weight-loss drug because its downsides outweigh the benefits. The downsides of semaglutide and tirzepatide are nothing like that of cocaine, and thus the calculus works out better for them. > You can say the same of opium, heroin, morphine, oxycodone, fentanyl, and Naloxone. Setting aside the fact that including naloxone in that list is a bit bizarre - it counteracts the rest of the list, everyone should have some in their first aid kit - those medications have benefits that make them sometimes appropriate clinically. (Similarly, cocaine is used medically and in a very controlled fashion in rare cases, like persistent bad nosebleeds.)
- kens 4y ago
  You say that Naloxone is abused and addictive? That is completely wrong. Naloxone has no addictive potential and has no potential for abuse. I think you have it confused with something else. Ref: https://www.asam.org/docs/default-source/public-policy-statements/use-of-naloxone-for-the-prevention-of-opioid-overdose-deaths-final.pdf https://www.asam.org/docs/default-source/public-policy-state...

Someone1234 4y ago

> How much of it was actually the lifestyle changes? It would be more interesting if there were no lifestyle changes... The article answers this further down: > Those receiving weekly injections of semaglutide lost, on average, 14.9% of their body weight after 16 months of treatment; those who received a placebo lost 2.4% on average. Per the article still a lot of work to do in this area, but on the face of it this could be an alternative to bariatric surgery for 1/3 of people.

__blockcipher__ 4y ago
The line you quoted: > Those receiving weekly injections of semaglutide lost, on average, 14.9% of their body weight after 16 months of treatment; those who received a placebo lost 2.4% on average. Doesn't really have anything to do with the question about lifestyle changes. That question basically centers around whether the 14.9% weight loss occurred independent of or as a result of lifestyle changes downstream from the semaglutide.
- djur 4y ago
  To the extent that lifestyle changes include "not eating as much", it seems self-evident that the weight loss was the result of lifestyle changes. A drug that makes it easier to stick with a diet is a huge deal!

smith7018 4y ago

Cocaine does the same thing but it only lasts ~20 minutes. Ozempic is a once a week injection that curbs appetite and makes the user feel fuller faster. It also comes in a pen (like an epipen) and is injected into fat stores so the user probably won't have "track marks."

djur 4y ago
Also, these medications aren't stimulants, which is really important for people who might be at higher risk for heart issues.