4 ms·

Pretty junky article, because it doesn't define the goal, and therefore cannot give any recommendations either. Is the goal weight loss? Is the goal sleep quali

Pretty junky article, because it doesn't define the goal, and therefore cannot give any recommendations either. Is the goal weight loss? Is the goal sleep quality? Is the goal how to maximize muscle protein synthesis (and add weight)? When it comes to weight loss (and when the right muscle sparing tools are in place, also fat loss) total Calories in vs Calories out dominates. Don't get fooled, both sides of the equation are moving targets so it's been extremely difficult to be precise with it even in research. and water weight changes add further confusion. When it comes to other hormonal aspects though? meal timing matters, obviously. An extreme example that makes it obvious -- If you eat ~1500 calories from fats/carbs in one sitting, you're likely gonna want a nap in short order as your blood sugar and insulin excreted rise. Does that mean you'll gain weight? Depends on your caloric needs. Another example -- Eating even 3 hours before bed time can affect sleep. So, for sleep quality, it's best to eat earlier and then stop. Another example -- taking in caffeine blocks the clearing of adenosine (the feel tired hormone). So if you drink caffeine in the first ~90minutes of waking then you dont actually clear the adenosine as well, and then when the caffeine hits it's half life (about 6 hours later) you'll feel tired again. Solution: let your body clear adenosine naturally before you consume caffeine.

fellowniusmonk 4y ago
I've never heard that caffeine prevents the clearing of adenosine receptors, a quick google didn't show anything with that side affect, do you have a particular citation? I'd definitely change coffee consumption habits if that is the case.
- andai 4y ago
  Isn't that literally how caffeine works?
  - oaktrout 4y ago
    More specifically I would say that's how caffeine tolerance works.
- kseistrup 4y ago
  You'll find a lot of references if you use a search engine to search for “caffeine and adenosine”. Here's the first result from my search: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20164566/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20164566/
  - Someone1234 4y ago
    That cite doesn't support what the person said above. Here is their claim again: > So if you drink caffeine in the first ~90minutes of waking then you dont actually clear the adenosine as well, and then when the caffeine hits it's half life (about 6 hours later) you'll feel tired again. Solution: let your body clear adenosine naturally before you consume caffeine. That is a very specific claim. Your cite is about caffeine antagonizing adenosine receptors, but what the comment above is talking about is that caffeine slows your body from clearing adenosine in your blood which is very different. I'd like to read a cite about the above quoted claim. Simplying googling "adenosine and caffeine" doesn't immediately support it, because again "antagonizing adenosine receptors" and "dont actually clear the adenosine as well" aren't remotely the same claim.
- the-printer 4y ago
  Personally, I learned this from Dr. Andrew Huberman… https://podclips.com/c/why-andrew-huberman-avoids-caffeine-for-152-hours-after-waking https://podclips.com/c/why-andrew-huberman-avoids-caffeine-f... https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedFitness/comments/qaq6z4/dr_andrew_huberman_because_caffeine_reduces/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedFitness/comments/qaq6z4/dr_... Sources should be in the show notes of the corresponding podcast episodes. Anecdotally: I can tell the difference.
  - iLoveOncall 4y ago
    Podcasts and Reddit is the same as no source at all. If it's not a peer-reviewed published research (actually, multiple) it's not credible. It doesn't mean it's wrong, but presenting it as a fact like the OP did is wrong and potentially extremely harmful.
    - maerF0x0 4y ago
      > Podcasts and Reddit is the same as no source at all. Nah, c'mon, Most of us are unqualified to synthesize the dozens (if not hundreds) of sources it takes to be an expert in a field. Saying podcasts and reddit is the same as no source is like saying "People are no source" -- it entirely depends on the person. > Andrew D. Huberman is an American neuroscientist and tenured associate professor in the department of neurobiology and psychiatry and behavioral sciences at Stanford University School of Medicine That's a decently trustworthy source to trust for physiological information. I mean, do you force your GP to provide sources and then go read them before you take their advice? Even if you do, it's not advisable for the majority of people.
      - tmn 4y ago
        I was trying to formulate a reply and then saw yours. Well said
      - ilyt 4y ago
        Science or "science" around caffeine and food constantly bombards people with conflicting advice so I think that in this case it's fair to as more than "the guy said so on a podcast". It's akin sayin "he's developer for 10 years, clearly nothing he said about software is wrong", which would get you laughed out of the room
- rolph 4y ago
  i found this for you: https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-disease/jad01379 https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-... despite the title, it is commonly cited re caffiene vs adenosine. the [PDF]is here: https://content.iospress.com/download/journal-of-alzheimers-disease/jad01379?id=journal-of-alzheimers-disease%2Fjad01379 https://content.iospress.com/download/journal-of-alzheimers-... [PDF]
andai 4y ago
https://youtube.com/watch?v=i-hCUkAsbpU&t=24 https://youtube.com/watch?v=i-hCUkAsbpU&t=24 A bit informal but gets the gist across: eating outside of a 12 hour period (which begins at the first meal of the day) causes increased fat uptake, lowers insulin sensitivity, and your muscle starts to waste.
- trabant00 4y ago
  We have plenty of studies about this from body building. What you eat is orders of magnitude more important than when you eat. So while you can measure effects of timing and they are real, they are insignificant to most but the top competition level where 1% can make a difference.
  - tchaffee 4y ago
    Those studies give a good idea of the effects on body builders. You can't just automagically extend that to the general population.
    - maerF0x0 4y ago
      Also the part that most people forget is that studying bodybuilders is most often also studying people who are on performance enhancing drugs ("steroids").
    - trabant00 4y ago
      Researchers are aware of this, the studies are on regular people - a lot of them on people who never exercised before - just in a body building scenario. I wasn't very clear in my first post.
      - tchaffee 4y ago
        Which studies specifically?
- maerF0x0 4y ago
  Time restricted feeding is a form of natural calorie restriction and it's the caloric restriction that causes the change in the body. When equated for calories, protein, and fiber (and their "Calories Out" side effects) there is no statistically significant difference in diets from the twinkie diet[1], keto, low carb, low fat (though not too too low cause of hormones), one meal a day, 12/12 or 16/8 or 5d/2d intermittent fasting... [1]: https://conciergemedicinemd.com/the-twinkie-diet/ https://conciergemedicinemd.com/the-twinkie-diet/

fellowniusmonk 4y ago

I've never heard that caffeine prevents the clearing of adenosine receptors, a quick google didn't show anything with that side affect, do you have a particular citation? I'd definitely change coffee consumption habits if that is the case.

andai 4y ago
Isn't that literally how caffeine works?
- oaktrout 4y ago
  More specifically I would say that's how caffeine tolerance works.
kseistrup 4y ago
You'll find a lot of references if you use a search engine to search for “caffeine and adenosine”. Here's the first result from my search: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20164566/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20164566/
- Someone1234 4y ago
  That cite doesn't support what the person said above. Here is their claim again: > So if you drink caffeine in the first ~90minutes of waking then you dont actually clear the adenosine as well, and then when the caffeine hits it's half life (about 6 hours later) you'll feel tired again. Solution: let your body clear adenosine naturally before you consume caffeine. That is a very specific claim. Your cite is about caffeine antagonizing adenosine receptors, but what the comment above is talking about is that caffeine slows your body from clearing adenosine in your blood which is very different. I'd like to read a cite about the above quoted claim. Simplying googling "adenosine and caffeine" doesn't immediately support it, because again "antagonizing adenosine receptors" and "dont actually clear the adenosine as well" aren't remotely the same claim.
the-printer 4y ago
Personally, I learned this from Dr. Andrew Huberman… https://podclips.com/c/why-andrew-huberman-avoids-caffeine-for-152-hours-after-waking https://podclips.com/c/why-andrew-huberman-avoids-caffeine-f... https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedFitness/comments/qaq6z4/dr_andrew_huberman_because_caffeine_reduces/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedFitness/comments/qaq6z4/dr_... Sources should be in the show notes of the corresponding podcast episodes. Anecdotally: I can tell the difference.
- iLoveOncall 4y ago
  Podcasts and Reddit is the same as no source at all. If it's not a peer-reviewed published research (actually, multiple) it's not credible. It doesn't mean it's wrong, but presenting it as a fact like the OP did is wrong and potentially extremely harmful.
  - maerF0x0 4y ago
    > Podcasts and Reddit is the same as no source at all. Nah, c'mon, Most of us are unqualified to synthesize the dozens (if not hundreds) of sources it takes to be an expert in a field. Saying podcasts and reddit is the same as no source is like saying "People are no source" -- it entirely depends on the person. > Andrew D. Huberman is an American neuroscientist and tenured associate professor in the department of neurobiology and psychiatry and behavioral sciences at Stanford University School of Medicine That's a decently trustworthy source to trust for physiological information. I mean, do you force your GP to provide sources and then go read them before you take their advice? Even if you do, it's not advisable for the majority of people.
    - tmn 4y ago
      I was trying to formulate a reply and then saw yours. Well said
    - ilyt 4y ago
      Science or "science" around caffeine and food constantly bombards people with conflicting advice so I think that in this case it's fair to as more than "the guy said so on a podcast". It's akin sayin "he's developer for 10 years, clearly nothing he said about software is wrong", which would get you laughed out of the room
rolph 4y ago
i found this for you: https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-disease/jad01379 https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-... despite the title, it is commonly cited re caffiene vs adenosine. the [PDF]is here: https://content.iospress.com/download/journal-of-alzheimers-disease/jad01379?id=journal-of-alzheimers-disease%2Fjad01379 https://content.iospress.com/download/journal-of-alzheimers-... [PDF]

andai 4y ago

https://youtube.com/watch?v=i-hCUkAsbpU&t=24 https://youtube.com/watch?v=i-hCUkAsbpU&t=24 A bit informal but gets the gist across: eating outside of a 12 hour period (which begins at the first meal of the day) causes increased fat uptake, lowers insulin sensitivity, and your muscle starts to waste.

trabant00 4y ago
We have plenty of studies about this from body building. What you eat is orders of magnitude more important than when you eat. So while you can measure effects of timing and they are real, they are insignificant to most but the top competition level where 1% can make a difference.
- tchaffee 4y ago
  Those studies give a good idea of the effects on body builders. You can't just automagically extend that to the general population.
  - maerF0x0 4y ago
    Also the part that most people forget is that studying bodybuilders is most often also studying people who are on performance enhancing drugs ("steroids").
  - trabant00 4y ago
    Researchers are aware of this, the studies are on regular people - a lot of them on people who never exercised before - just in a body building scenario. I wasn't very clear in my first post.
    - tchaffee 4y ago
      Which studies specifically?
maerF0x0 4y ago
Time restricted feeding is a form of natural calorie restriction and it's the caloric restriction that causes the change in the body. When equated for calories, protein, and fiber (and their "Calories Out" side effects) there is no statistically significant difference in diets from the twinkie diet[1], keto, low carb, low fat (though not too too low cause of hormones), one meal a day, 12/12 or 16/8 or 5d/2d intermittent fasting... [1]: https://conciergemedicinemd.com/the-twinkie-diet/ https://conciergemedicinemd.com/the-twinkie-diet/