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It allows you to rely on a different set of assumptions regarding transactions. Normally I can buy or sell something if: 1. My government will allow me to tran

It allows you to rely on a different set of assumptions regarding transactions. Normally I can buy or sell something if: 1. My government will allow me to transact 2. My bank will allow me to transact Instead, with Bitcoin your assumptions become: 1. My counterparty will allow me to transact The difference between the first set of assumptions and the second is basically regulatory arbitrage. There is meaningful value to people to do things that are not permitted by their government or bank but which they think should be. Now, some of those things are serious crimes! Like fraud or money laundering, but some of those things are more like Uber or Airbnb, where some people think they shouldn’t exist but many people like them.

rocket_surgeron 4y ago
>Normally I can buy or sell something if: >1. My government will allow me to transact 2. My bank will allow me to transact Cryptobros keep saying this. What kind of fantasy world do they live in where the government and banks "normally" approve or disapprove of cash transactions? The bank from which you have withdrawn the cash does not know or care what you use it for, and the government may care but good luck it finding out. Remember, bitcoin is DIGITAL CASH as per the first sentence of the bitcoin white paper so like for like should be compared: analog cash to digital cash. You used the word "normally". I don't think "normally" means what you think it means. Crypto is insane. Incomprehensible. The perfect merging of paranoiac libertarians and immoral grifters forming a feedback loop of destruction that grinds up and spits out the masses in order to enrich the few at a scale that traditional banking could only dream of. Executives at Goldman Sachs are looking at the people running off with cash at all of the cryptoscams, the margins of miners, with jealousy because "duh jackbooted gubmint" says they have to like, obey the law and stuff. Crypto is a symptom of something being wrong with society but I don't know what. I do know that everyone I know personally who has been into crypto has either been an immoral scammer... or an imbecile.
- AbrahamParangi 4y ago
  Fine, add “or if you have and can transport sufficient cash and can meet face to face” to the first set of assumptions which doesn’t change the point at all. This world, the one we live in, is one where the government and your bank - even in most rich and free countries - will not let you transact in certain ways or buy certain things. Perhaps that doesn’t matter to you! That’s okay! But it is how it is.
- salawat 4y ago
  >What kind of fantasy world do they live in where the government and banks "normally" approve or disapprove of cash transactions? Are you a United States Citizen? If so, try writing a check a Russian oligarch, to pay for cuban cigars, or to sell something to Iran. Every last legal money emission in the United States includes a verification against the OFAC maintained Sanctioned Individuals List. Anything trying to leave one of those accounts will be rejected. Any type of transaction falling afoul of country embargoes will also be denied. Again, put "Cuban meal" in a meno field, and prepare to get a call or ding from your financial institution to make sure they are not facilitating economic activity with Cuba, a crime they are strictly liable for. Or be a Canadian protestor. Then have the Federal government order financial institutions to freeze your funds. >The bank from which you have withdrawn the cash does not know or care what you use it for, and the government may care but good luck it finding out. https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-banks-financial-institutions-severing-ties-gun-industry https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-banks-financial-institutions-s... Wrong. Banks are most interested in what you use it for. If guns aren't your thing... https://nypost.com/2022/09/06/sex-workers-say-wells-fargo-shut-their-bank-accounts/ https://nypost.com/2022/09/06/sex-workers-say-wells-fargo-sh... There's plenty more where that comes from. Also, all financial institutions in the United States (money transmitters) by law must hold on to 7 years transaction history, and must have a dedicated process for integrating with and handling law enforcement requests. These are routine. In short, your financial institution is an established component of law enforcement. Keep in mind, I still think crypto is patently insane, but the cryptobros are absolutely correct in those senses. ...and Bitcoin is mot digital cash. Cash can be anonymous given sufficient effort. Bitcoin cannot.
  - rocket_surgeron 4y ago
    >If so, try writing a check a Russian oligarch, to pay for cuban cigars, or to sell something to Iran. Which of those transactions is "normal"? It should be noted that even with cryptocurrencies laws still apply. You're still seeking "permission" for your "normal" transactions. Here's the deal. The commentator said, effectively, it is NORMAL for "duh gubmint" to control your spending. It is not. Normal has a well-defined and commonly-accepted meaning. You cannot call bribing a Russian oligarch "normal" unless you are a different kind of person than most. Unless you are an abnormal person doing abnormal things. There are edge cases where the government does regulate cash transactions and whether or not those edge cases are right or required is a separate discussion I am not having right now. Also, checks aren't cash????? >...and Bitcoin is mot digital cash. The title of the bitcoin white paper is "Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System". Is it lying? https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf To ape on Diderot, "Man will never be free until the last libertarian is strangled with the entails of the last cryptobro".

rocket_surgeron 4y ago

>Normally I can buy or sell something if: >1. My government will allow me to transact 2. My bank will allow me to transact Cryptobros keep saying this. What kind of fantasy world do they live in where the government and banks "normally" approve or disapprove of cash transactions? The bank from which you have withdrawn the cash does not know or care what you use it for, and the government may care but good luck it finding out. Remember, bitcoin is DIGITAL CASH as per the first sentence of the bitcoin white paper so like for like should be compared: analog cash to digital cash. You used the word "normally". I don't think "normally" means what you think it means. Crypto is insane. Incomprehensible. The perfect merging of paranoiac libertarians and immoral grifters forming a feedback loop of destruction that grinds up and spits out the masses in order to enrich the few at a scale that traditional banking could only dream of. Executives at Goldman Sachs are looking at the people running off with cash at all of the cryptoscams, the margins of miners, with jealousy because "duh jackbooted gubmint" says they have to like, obey the law and stuff. Crypto is a symptom of something being wrong with society but I don't know what. I do know that everyone I know personally who has been into crypto has either been an immoral scammer... or an imbecile.

AbrahamParangi 4y ago
Fine, add “or if you have and can transport sufficient cash and can meet face to face” to the first set of assumptions which doesn’t change the point at all. This world, the one we live in, is one where the government and your bank - even in most rich and free countries - will not let you transact in certain ways or buy certain things. Perhaps that doesn’t matter to you! That’s okay! But it is how it is.
salawat 4y ago
>What kind of fantasy world do they live in where the government and banks "normally" approve or disapprove of cash transactions? Are you a United States Citizen? If so, try writing a check a Russian oligarch, to pay for cuban cigars, or to sell something to Iran. Every last legal money emission in the United States includes a verification against the OFAC maintained Sanctioned Individuals List. Anything trying to leave one of those accounts will be rejected. Any type of transaction falling afoul of country embargoes will also be denied. Again, put "Cuban meal" in a meno field, and prepare to get a call or ding from your financial institution to make sure they are not facilitating economic activity with Cuba, a crime they are strictly liable for. Or be a Canadian protestor. Then have the Federal government order financial institutions to freeze your funds. >The bank from which you have withdrawn the cash does not know or care what you use it for, and the government may care but good luck it finding out. https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-banks-financial-institutions-severing-ties-gun-industry https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-banks-financial-institutions-s... Wrong. Banks are most interested in what you use it for. If guns aren't your thing... https://nypost.com/2022/09/06/sex-workers-say-wells-fargo-shut-their-bank-accounts/ https://nypost.com/2022/09/06/sex-workers-say-wells-fargo-sh... There's plenty more where that comes from. Also, all financial institutions in the United States (money transmitters) by law must hold on to 7 years transaction history, and must have a dedicated process for integrating with and handling law enforcement requests. These are routine. In short, your financial institution is an established component of law enforcement. Keep in mind, I still think crypto is patently insane, but the cryptobros are absolutely correct in those senses. ...and Bitcoin is mot digital cash. Cash can be anonymous given sufficient effort. Bitcoin cannot.
- rocket_surgeron 4y ago
  >If so, try writing a check a Russian oligarch, to pay for cuban cigars, or to sell something to Iran. Which of those transactions is "normal"? It should be noted that even with cryptocurrencies laws still apply. You're still seeking "permission" for your "normal" transactions. Here's the deal. The commentator said, effectively, it is NORMAL for "duh gubmint" to control your spending. It is not. Normal has a well-defined and commonly-accepted meaning. You cannot call bribing a Russian oligarch "normal" unless you are a different kind of person than most. Unless you are an abnormal person doing abnormal things. There are edge cases where the government does regulate cash transactions and whether or not those edge cases are right or required is a separate discussion I am not having right now. Also, checks aren't cash????? >...and Bitcoin is mot digital cash. The title of the bitcoin white paper is "Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System". Is it lying? https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf To ape on Diderot, "Man will never be free until the last libertarian is strangled with the entails of the last cryptobro".