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All of us will forever be baffled about how not only did Apple produce the dumbest laptop keyboard ever, but then defended it. If there was a museum of terribl

All of us will forever be baffled about how not only did Apple produce the dumbest laptop keyboard ever, but then defended it. If there was a museum of terrible technology, Apple's butterfly keyboard would be right up there with Windows ME, the Virtualboy, Juicero, etc. (Also removing Magsafe was clearly a dumbass decision. And at some point people will realize that current Apple laptops are once again thick enough to have K-lock slots again.)

bluedino 4y ago
And even if they somehow didn't already know about the reliability problems, the butterfly keyboard just felt so..bad.
- turtlebits 4y ago
  Really? IMO, it had the best feel out of the all Macbook Pro keyboards. Fortunately I never needed repairs, there was only one time I needed to clean out a key with compressed air and was fine. (Owned a 2016 and my work machine was a 2019).
- pivo 4y ago
  I had the last generation laptop with the "fixed" butterfly keyboard. I never had a problem with it and I had it for three years. It is by far my most favorite keyboard ever. I was said to have to hand it back when I left that job. I'm a light typer though, I think heavier handed typists suffered with it.
- ksec 4y ago
  And it is worth pointing out when Butterfly keyboard first appeared on MBP, every single HN comment were praising it as the greatest keyboard ever. ( As the two comments reply you have right now ) The old MBP had 1.5mm Key travel. They could have cut it to 1.2 or 1.3. Instead they went with 0.7 with the butterfly and later 1mm to the new scissor. Light typer generally dont "dislike" slightly more key travel. But those who cant adopt to small key travel "hate" the new keyboard. I still think it is the wrong trade off.
nerdponx 4y ago
> All of us will forever be baffled about how not only did Apple produce the dumbest laptop keyboard ever, but then defended it. It's obvious: they thought they could get away with it. The settlement is for $50m. If they saved $50m on keyboards then it was worth it for them.
- MegaDeKay 4y ago
  Pretty clear even from reading these comments that the reputation hit cost them something substantial on top of the $50m.
  - LBJsPNS 4y ago
    Apparently not enough. This community doesn't really reflect the world at large.
  - Phlarp 4y ago
    The "double-tap" issue of both a defective keyboard, and a laptop design that had the keyboard physically fused to the case had to be expensive even for Apple. My experience was a 2017 model developing keyboard issues after ~2.5 years, The repair took a less than 48 hours from drop off to return and it appeared the device went from MN to Texas and back in that time. Additionally since the repair required an entirely new laptop I got a fresh case and battery with zero cycles. No apple care, no repair fee. It's hard to imagine a scenario where these repairs didn't obliterate the profit from an entire generation of macbooks. Apple makes a shitty keyboard and it's the best thing to ever happen to Fedex?
    - nerdponx 4y ago
      I should probably clarify what I said above. Ax ante, the expected value of shipping the butterfly keyboards was probably positive, even if there was some chance they would be called out and lose money in the long run. I'm also willing to assume that "cheaping out" was not part of the original design vision, and that it became a judgement call later in the development process. What's important is that, in the long run, these incidents don't really hurt the company as long as they don't happen too often, even if this particular incident lost them more than they gained.
droopyEyelids 4y ago
Jony Ive was one of the top decision makers at Apple, maybe second only to Tim Cook. Jony believed the butterfly keyboard was his crowning achievement & legacy, and was willing to fight to the death to preserve it. Loss of the butterfly keyboard was actually the definitive factor in Jony Ive's departure.
- r00fus 4y ago
  Good riddance. Since Ive's departure we have ports back, and mostly sensible design decisions.
annoyingnoob 4y ago
You're Holding It Wrong!
Mikeb85 4y ago
> Virtualboy Haha haven't seen many references to this recently. Not gonna lie, was cool, way ahead of it's time but yeah, not the best overall experience.
manicennui 4y ago
Do you not remember the faulty AC adapter design that they refused to fix for years? There was eventually a class action, but I think they just replaced them instead of fixing the design.
DocTomoe 4y ago
There is! https://museumoffailure.com https://museumoffailure.com A visit at one of their pop-up shows is highly recommended.

bluedino 4y ago

And even if they somehow didn't already know about the reliability problems, the butterfly keyboard just felt so..bad.

turtlebits 4y ago
Really? IMO, it had the best feel out of the all Macbook Pro keyboards. Fortunately I never needed repairs, there was only one time I needed to clean out a key with compressed air and was fine. (Owned a 2016 and my work machine was a 2019).
pivo 4y ago
I had the last generation laptop with the "fixed" butterfly keyboard. I never had a problem with it and I had it for three years. It is by far my most favorite keyboard ever. I was said to have to hand it back when I left that job. I'm a light typer though, I think heavier handed typists suffered with it.
ksec 4y ago
And it is worth pointing out when Butterfly keyboard first appeared on MBP, every single HN comment were praising it as the greatest keyboard ever. ( As the two comments reply you have right now ) The old MBP had 1.5mm Key travel. They could have cut it to 1.2 or 1.3. Instead they went with 0.7 with the butterfly and later 1mm to the new scissor. Light typer generally dont "dislike" slightly more key travel. But those who cant adopt to small key travel "hate" the new keyboard. I still think it is the wrong trade off.

nerdponx 4y ago

> All of us will forever be baffled about how not only did Apple produce the dumbest laptop keyboard ever, but then defended it. It's obvious: they thought they could get away with it. The settlement is for $50m. If they saved $50m on keyboards then it was worth it for them.

MegaDeKay 4y ago
Pretty clear even from reading these comments that the reputation hit cost them something substantial on top of the $50m.
- LBJsPNS 4y ago
  Apparently not enough. This community doesn't really reflect the world at large.
- Phlarp 4y ago
  The "double-tap" issue of both a defective keyboard, and a laptop design that had the keyboard physically fused to the case had to be expensive even for Apple. My experience was a 2017 model developing keyboard issues after ~2.5 years, The repair took a less than 48 hours from drop off to return and it appeared the device went from MN to Texas and back in that time. Additionally since the repair required an entirely new laptop I got a fresh case and battery with zero cycles. No apple care, no repair fee. It's hard to imagine a scenario where these repairs didn't obliterate the profit from an entire generation of macbooks. Apple makes a shitty keyboard and it's the best thing to ever happen to Fedex?
  - nerdponx 4y ago
    I should probably clarify what I said above. Ax ante, the expected value of shipping the butterfly keyboards was probably positive, even if there was some chance they would be called out and lose money in the long run. I'm also willing to assume that "cheaping out" was not part of the original design vision, and that it became a judgement call later in the development process. What's important is that, in the long run, these incidents don't really hurt the company as long as they don't happen too often, even if this particular incident lost them more than they gained.

droopyEyelids 4y ago

Jony Ive was one of the top decision makers at Apple, maybe second only to Tim Cook. Jony believed the butterfly keyboard was his crowning achievement & legacy, and was willing to fight to the death to preserve it. Loss of the butterfly keyboard was actually the definitive factor in Jony Ive's departure.

r00fus 4y ago
Good riddance. Since Ive's departure we have ports back, and mostly sensible design decisions.

annoyingnoob 4y ago

You're Holding It Wrong!

Mikeb85 4y ago

> Virtualboy Haha haven't seen many references to this recently. Not gonna lie, was cool, way ahead of it's time but yeah, not the best overall experience.

manicennui 4y ago

Do you not remember the faulty AC adapter design that they refused to fix for years? There was eventually a class action, but I think they just replaced them instead of fixing the design.

DocTomoe 4y ago

There is! https://museumoffailure.com https://museumoffailure.com A visit at one of their pop-up shows is highly recommended.