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So, how do you reconcile this opinion with the fact that Ruby can't even do a proper REPL on Windows? It just starts showing weird output, overwriting lines and

So, how do you reconcile this opinion with the fact that Ruby can't even do a proper REPL on Windows? It just starts showing weird output, overwriting lines and doubling up other ones... that other language just works. And look, I LOVE Ruby. I come from twentyish years of Perl, and I really like the way Ruby feels when banging out a script but these days, time is in short supply, and I just don't have time to screw around with Ruby. If I were someone who was gravely concerned with Ruby's future, I really don't know where to even begin. * DataSci/ML scene is basically nonexistent, that's a problem. * Windows scene isn't good, at all. That's a problem. At least it's kinda there, so you wouldn't be starting from scratch at least, like Crystal team has fought with. * I think something could be done with integrating Rubocop or some other linter (? idk what real Rubyists use) in order to begin solidifying the code culture. PEP8 is a huge factor of Python's success imo. * Packaging. I'm not familiar with the modern Ruby stack, but in my limited dabbling, rake has done just fine. In Python, hearing about Packaging Issues is the new vogue from customers/people who have no idea what they're doing in the slightest. I've used pip/setup.py in the past, but funny enough I'm actually reading up on Hatch lately, which is the new hotness. Anyhow, I don't think it's quite fair to throw this much shade at Python when Ruby hasn't really addressed any of the things that makes Python so popular. If Ruby is so much better, than it needs to do all those things at least as well if not better.

nindalf 4y ago
If anyone reading this is thinking “why does Windows even matter for development?” then congratulations because you’ve discovered you’re in a filter bubble. Surveys, such as StackOverflow’s (https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#section-most-popular-technologies-operating-system https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#section-most-popular-t...) consistently find that > Windows is the most popular operating system for developers, across both personal and professional use. If it makes anyone feel better, I’m in this filter bubble as well. I’ve never seen someone program professionally in Windows.
- detinho 4y ago
  Well, I'm programming on windows for about 6 months now, comming from using Linux for the last 5 years. I have to admit I was forced as my new notebook BIOS has a wrong VBT configuration and that makes the Linux kernel to not recognize my HDMI port. And I can acomplish any other task a regular developer can do (and I was doing) programming in Java (with sdkman), using docker containers, git on the command line, Big Data tools (flink, iceberg, haddop, etc) and even some bash scripts (nothing too fancy). The only things that bothers me are the CRLF x LF and sometimes the windows defender making the fans go crazy, but thats is a minimum and I can do some workarounds, the same way I did with bluetooth and audio on Linux.
- wil421 4y ago
  I’ve only seen people program on windows or Macs professionally. Lots of HN people talk about developing on Linux desktop but I’ve never had a good experience with my hardware. Wether it’s an old MacBook Pro or a custom built PC, something like Bluetooth, WiFi, Ethernet, display issues, or the track pad just doesn’t work right. I guess company laptops that run Linux have been vetted a little more.
- TheRealDunkirk 4y ago
  I've been doing Ruby on Rails since the early 2.x days. (I dabbled with 1.x, but gave up to let it "age" a little.) For the first 5 years, I was on Linux full time, and it was great. Then I moved to Mac, and it was almost as great. (The terminal situation and general integration of the command line is still more cohesive in Linux.) For about the past 10 years, I've been at a standard Fortune 250 Windows-is-the-entire-world kind of place. I've been able to do my work on my personal Mac, but I've always made sure that I can do all of my Rails work on my corporate Windows laptop. There are times my code needs to access file locations and other applications inside the corporate firewall. Obviously, people are correct that Ruby is not a "first-class" citizen on Windows, but RubyInstaller (https://rubyinstaller.org https://rubyinstaller.org) has been a lifesaver. Not only does it "just work," and compile all the gems I've used, but it also includes a neat little script that addresses the common "corporate" practice of having to install custom SSL certificates so that IT can decode all traffic going through their firewall. (They install these certs directly into the Windows networking stack, but bundler doesn't use the stack.) The SSL bundle their script creates is also useful for use with Postgres database connections. You just need RubyInstaller, NodeJS, and a better terminal application (or maybe RubyMine), and you're GTG on Windows. I've tried to use WSL, both version 1 and 2. If you need to support many Rails apps, and switch Ruby versions (with RVM or rbenv), that might be the way to go, but for just one (big) project, I prefer to stay inside the native environment. And even if I were tempted to use WSL, I'd rather just use an actual VM software like VMWare or OpenBox, and control the details of the virtualization myself. YMMV.
michaelteter 4y ago
> I don't think it's quite fair to throw this much shade at Python when Ruby hasn't really addressed any of the things that makes Python so popular My issue is that most companies using Python probably don't need the Python-only libraries. Aside from the fantasy AI point I originally mentioned, I think Python is the PHB's choice (like the mauve database) because that's what they've read in or heard in their circles, or because the first person building the webapp wants Django's built-in admin interface (which always becomes a problem later, like apps in Excel become problems later). > Rubocop Yes, it is fairly standard. And I dislike it like I dislike Black (Python's PEP8 dominatrix). Although Rubocop goes well beyond by giving you often helpful advice about optimization choices or unnecessary code. I like it for that, but I want to format in a more column-oriented way than Rubocop or Black allow (without config mods). Black is a horror show to me. It's almost like it was designed to chew up as much vertical whitespace as possible. It's not as bad as PHP norms, but it really does like to turn pleasant tight blocks into twice as many lines and extra ( ) (out of necessity, since Python can't deal with linebreaks well).

nindalf 4y ago

If anyone reading this is thinking “why does Windows even matter for development?” then congratulations because you’ve discovered you’re in a filter bubble. Surveys, such as StackOverflow’s (https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#section-most-popular-technologies-operating-system https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#section-most-popular-t...) consistently find that > Windows is the most popular operating system for developers, across both personal and professional use. If it makes anyone feel better, I’m in this filter bubble as well. I’ve never seen someone program professionally in Windows.

detinho 4y ago
Well, I'm programming on windows for about 6 months now, comming from using Linux for the last 5 years. I have to admit I was forced as my new notebook BIOS has a wrong VBT configuration and that makes the Linux kernel to not recognize my HDMI port. And I can acomplish any other task a regular developer can do (and I was doing) programming in Java (with sdkman), using docker containers, git on the command line, Big Data tools (flink, iceberg, haddop, etc) and even some bash scripts (nothing too fancy). The only things that bothers me are the CRLF x LF and sometimes the windows defender making the fans go crazy, but thats is a minimum and I can do some workarounds, the same way I did with bluetooth and audio on Linux.
wil421 4y ago
I’ve only seen people program on windows or Macs professionally. Lots of HN people talk about developing on Linux desktop but I’ve never had a good experience with my hardware. Wether it’s an old MacBook Pro or a custom built PC, something like Bluetooth, WiFi, Ethernet, display issues, or the track pad just doesn’t work right. I guess company laptops that run Linux have been vetted a little more.
TheRealDunkirk 4y ago
I've been doing Ruby on Rails since the early 2.x days. (I dabbled with 1.x, but gave up to let it "age" a little.) For the first 5 years, I was on Linux full time, and it was great. Then I moved to Mac, and it was almost as great. (The terminal situation and general integration of the command line is still more cohesive in Linux.) For about the past 10 years, I've been at a standard Fortune 250 Windows-is-the-entire-world kind of place. I've been able to do my work on my personal Mac, but I've always made sure that I can do all of my Rails work on my corporate Windows laptop. There are times my code needs to access file locations and other applications inside the corporate firewall. Obviously, people are correct that Ruby is not a "first-class" citizen on Windows, but RubyInstaller (https://rubyinstaller.org https://rubyinstaller.org) has been a lifesaver. Not only does it "just work," and compile all the gems I've used, but it also includes a neat little script that addresses the common "corporate" practice of having to install custom SSL certificates so that IT can decode all traffic going through their firewall. (They install these certs directly into the Windows networking stack, but bundler doesn't use the stack.) The SSL bundle their script creates is also useful for use with Postgres database connections. You just need RubyInstaller, NodeJS, and a better terminal application (or maybe RubyMine), and you're GTG on Windows. I've tried to use WSL, both version 1 and 2. If you need to support many Rails apps, and switch Ruby versions (with RVM or rbenv), that might be the way to go, but for just one (big) project, I prefer to stay inside the native environment. And even if I were tempted to use WSL, I'd rather just use an actual VM software like VMWare or OpenBox, and control the details of the virtualization myself. YMMV.

michaelteter 4y ago

> I don't think it's quite fair to throw this much shade at Python when Ruby hasn't really addressed any of the things that makes Python so popular My issue is that most companies using Python probably don't need the Python-only libraries. Aside from the fantasy AI point I originally mentioned, I think Python is the PHB's choice (like the mauve database) because that's what they've read in or heard in their circles, or because the first person building the webapp wants Django's built-in admin interface (which always becomes a problem later, like apps in Excel become problems later). > Rubocop Yes, it is fairly standard. And I dislike it like I dislike Black (Python's PEP8 dominatrix). Although Rubocop goes well beyond by giving you often helpful advice about optimization choices or unnecessary code. I like it for that, but I want to format in a more column-oriented way than Rubocop or Black allow (without config mods). Black is a horror show to me. It's almost like it was designed to chew up as much vertical whitespace as possible. It's not as bad as PHP norms, but it really does like to turn pleasant tight blocks into twice as many lines and extra ( ) (out of necessity, since Python can't deal with linebreaks well).