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> That's certainly not true for HN, for most of Reddit outside of a few big subs, for GitHub, for Wikipedia, Just because you don't recognize them, doesn't mea

> That's certainly not true for HN, for most of Reddit outside of a few big subs, for GitHub, for Wikipedia, Just because you don't recognize them, doesn't mean they are not there. Subtle advertisement and trolling is strong even on HN. It's just not in-your-face-style. > for IRC/Matrix, for most mailing lists, or for any of the hundreds of thousands of traditional web forums still in active use. Those could be seen as less public spaces like slack or discord. Generally, any place with strong moderation or poor automation-option is a cozy web, where dumb junk has little to no space.

Semaphor 4y ago
> Just because you don't recognize them, doesn't mean they are not there. Subtle advertisement and trolling is strong even on HN. It's just not in-your-face-style. No one said they aren’t here. But they certainly haven't "overrun" the place.
- mandmandam 4y ago
  What's your definition of "overrun"? If you were paying attention to the shifts in tone and the window of 'acceptable' conversation on here, it's been pretty dramatic. Post or comment the 'wrong' thing about the 'wrong' topic here and you'll get damn near instaflagged, your post removed, rate limited, etc. Say something (true) against a company with active PR goons, and you'll find the entire comment section turned into a toxic mess within 15 minutes. If you think that shit is normal, you don't remember how things used to be.
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    I mean, I have showdead on. I see what comments are flagged. They are flamebait the vast majority of the time.
    - mandmandam 4y ago
      Sure, much of the time removed comments are poor quality. Sometimes though, they are comments that ought to have been the top comment. Anything that gets flagged will be seen by far, far fewer people. Most people here don't have shadowdead on. Most don't even know that it exists. And that's just comments. More important are the stories that get wiped. Stories that are flagged by motivated minorities at lightning speed, unseen unless you're obsessively browsing new. Even if you do find one, you can't comment on it. One vouch isn't enough to bring it back, even if you see it shortly after it's posted. Moderators can cite "the will of the community" and there's nothing you can do about it. Stories don't even have to be deleted. A post that gets flagged for just a short time can drop impressions by 90+% and never get back on the front page. This happens a lot with certain topics. So, you're right in what you're saying - but that's far from the full story.
      - int_19h 4y ago
        It would actually be interesting to see the numbers: how many registered HN users have showdead=yes? FWIW I not only browse with that on, but also vouch for comments that I feel were killed unfairly. I've seen dead comments revived (and then upvoted) more than once.

Semaphor 4y ago

> Just because you don't recognize them, doesn't mean they are not there. Subtle advertisement and trolling is strong even on HN. It's just not in-your-face-style. No one said they aren’t here. But they certainly haven't "overrun" the place.

mandmandam 4y ago
What's your definition of "overrun"? If you were paying attention to the shifts in tone and the window of 'acceptable' conversation on here, it's been pretty dramatic. Post or comment the 'wrong' thing about the 'wrong' topic here and you'll get damn near instaflagged, your post removed, rate limited, etc. Say something (true) against a company with active PR goons, and you'll find the entire comment section turned into a toxic mess within 15 minutes. If you think that shit is normal, you don't remember how things used to be.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  I mean, I have showdead on. I see what comments are flagged. They are flamebait the vast majority of the time.
  - mandmandam 4y ago
    Sure, much of the time removed comments are poor quality. Sometimes though, they are comments that ought to have been the top comment. Anything that gets flagged will be seen by far, far fewer people. Most people here don't have shadowdead on. Most don't even know that it exists. And that's just comments. More important are the stories that get wiped. Stories that are flagged by motivated minorities at lightning speed, unseen unless you're obsessively browsing new. Even if you do find one, you can't comment on it. One vouch isn't enough to bring it back, even if you see it shortly after it's posted. Moderators can cite "the will of the community" and there's nothing you can do about it. Stories don't even have to be deleted. A post that gets flagged for just a short time can drop impressions by 90+% and never get back on the front page. This happens a lot with certain topics. So, you're right in what you're saying - but that's far from the full story.
    - int_19h 4y ago
      It would actually be interesting to see the numbers: how many registered HN users have showdead=yes? FWIW I not only browse with that on, but also vouch for comments that I feel were killed unfairly. I've seen dead comments revived (and then upvoted) more than once.