6 ms·

> Not to mention that efficiency doesn't really tie to how exorbitantly expensive it is to run heat pumps, you're looking at +$500-800 month in extra electrici

by adev_ 4y ago

> Not to mention that efficiency doesn't really tie to how exorbitantly expensive it is to run heat pumps, you're looking at +$500-800 month in extra electricity costs in some places. You might be an order of magnitude higher than reality here. I do live in the French Alps (relatively cold) in a 160m2 house warmed with an heat pump. My bill is around 600-800€ per year, not per month. My house is from the 1970s with an average insulation from the 80s I do not see how you can get 600-800$ per month, excepted if you do live in a -25˚C climate and in a house insulated with a sheet of paper. But then you will probably get an even worst bill with a gas boiler.

kilotaras 4y ago
> But then you will probably get an even worst bill with a gas boiler Quick google shows that electicity in France[0] costs roughly 1.6x more than natgas. For Washington State this ratio is around 2.45x. Eyeballing this graph[2] that corresponds to breakeven outside temperature of <-20℃ and -8℃ respectively for 40℃ output (~-18℃ and 0℃ for 50℃). [0] https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/France/ https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/France/ [1] https://www.bls.gov/regions/west/news-release/averageenergyprices_seattle.htm https://www.bls.gov/regions/west/news-release/averageenergyp... [2] https://support.sefaira.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000249971-Air-to-Water-Heat-Pumps-Explained https://support.sefaira.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000249971-A... -> scroll down roughly 2/3.
- adev_ 4y ago
  > Eyeballing this graph[2] that corresponds to breakeven outside temperature of <-20℃ and -8℃ respectively for 40℃ output (~-18℃ and 0℃ for 50℃). Interesting perspective, thank you. Considering that the average winter temperature in Seattle (Washington) is around 3-4˚C [1], it is far over the breakeven. It is even more true in my case: my system is is a water-water geothermal type. They do maintain maximum COP (4-5) and maximum power independently of the outside temperature. They are perfect for cold climate. For the little side story: My heatpump has been installed in 1987 by the previous owner of the house and I believe he was truly a visionary. Nobody was talking or even speaking about heat pump at that time. From his own words: people of the neighbourhood took him for a mad-man when he said in the 80s he would warm his house with the cold water from the river. Facts are that his system is still running 35 years later and provided a cheap, reliable and low carbon source of heating for over 3 decades. [1]: https://weatherspark.com/s/913/3/Average-Winter-Weather-in-Seattle-Washington-United-States https://weatherspark.com/s/913/3/Average-Winter-Weather-in-S...
  - idiotsecant 4y ago
    Worth noting that Washington state is not just Seattle - we over here in the eastern side of the state get much, much colder!

by adev_ 4y ago

kilotaras 4y ago

> But then you will probably get an even worst bill with a gas boiler Quick google shows that electicity in France[0] costs roughly 1.6x more than natgas. For Washington State this ratio is around 2.45x. Eyeballing this graph[2] that corresponds to breakeven outside temperature of <-20℃ and -8℃ respectively for 40℃ output (~-18℃ and 0℃ for 50℃). [0] https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/France/ https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/France/ [1] https://www.bls.gov/regions/west/news-release/averageenergyprices_seattle.htm https://www.bls.gov/regions/west/news-release/averageenergyp... [2] https://support.sefaira.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000249971-Air-to-Water-Heat-Pumps-Explained https://support.sefaira.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000249971-A... -> scroll down roughly 2/3.

adev_ 4y ago
> Eyeballing this graph[2] that corresponds to breakeven outside temperature of <-20℃ and -8℃ respectively for 40℃ output (~-18℃ and 0℃ for 50℃). Interesting perspective, thank you. Considering that the average winter temperature in Seattle (Washington) is around 3-4˚C [1], it is far over the breakeven. It is even more true in my case: my system is is a water-water geothermal type. They do maintain maximum COP (4-5) and maximum power independently of the outside temperature. They are perfect for cold climate. For the little side story: My heatpump has been installed in 1987 by the previous owner of the house and I believe he was truly a visionary. Nobody was talking or even speaking about heat pump at that time. From his own words: people of the neighbourhood took him for a mad-man when he said in the 80s he would warm his house with the cold water from the river. Facts are that his system is still running 35 years later and provided a cheap, reliable and low carbon source of heating for over 3 decades. [1]: https://weatherspark.com/s/913/3/Average-Winter-Weather-in-Seattle-Washington-United-States https://weatherspark.com/s/913/3/Average-Winter-Weather-in-S...
- idiotsecant 4y ago
  Worth noting that Washington state is not just Seattle - we over here in the eastern side of the state get much, much colder!