4 ms·

What I don't really understand is why there are usually so many discussions on how Google, Microsoft & Co are killing the web, but here the majority seems to be

by dx034 4y ago

What I don't really understand is why there are usually so many discussions on how Google, Microsoft & Co are killing the web, but here the majority seems to be in favor. Once search engines work like ChatGPT, the incentive to click through to the source will be extremely low. That destroys any incentive to create content and will kill many blogs and sites with high quality content. The likes of Reddit and Twitter can survive this, most blogs have no chance to exist if ChatGPT uses their content but users don't click through.

magicalist 4y ago
Yep. We can go back to a hobbyist internet outside of shopping I guess, yay, but not sure where people think ChatGPT is going to get information after that.
Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
To me, that sounds like... absolutely amazing? What made the quality of the web go down the gutter is the hunger for clicks and ad revenue, which brought aggressive SEO, clickbait, meaningless automatically-generated sites, etc. Removing the incentives so that we are back in 1990s internet, where by the way lots of quality blogs existed without ads? Count me in. (Unfortunately, I don't think it's really going to be like that, though. ChatGPT will be used a lot, but people will still want to read websites because sometimes we want to read a text -or watch images, videos...-, not necessarily have a conversation).
- gernb 4y ago
  you think its amazing but with chatgpt also generating 1000s of fake blogs the results you get from it will get even worse
  - sethammons 4y ago
    What is the incentive for the fake blog generation aside from lols? Maybe enough astroturfing to sway the GPT models? I, too, am hopeful that seo and blog spam become dramatically less effective at revenue generation and die out.
    - nickfromseattle 4y ago
      > hopeful that seo and blog spam become dramatically less effective at revenue generation and die out. Won't reducing clicks to publishers producing good content also cause the good content to die?
      - sethammons 4y ago
        amazing content existed before Google. Monetized content may go away. I grew up on the internet of the 90s and a return to a similar web would be tops.
    - gernb 4y ago
      Ask chatgpt to write 1000s of positive reviews for my product. Ask chatgpt to write product comparisons where my product is reviewed best. Ask chatgpt to write critical reviews of competitors products. Ask chatgpt to write 1000s of articles that support my pov on political topics, each time in a different "style" as in "Write an article supporting right to life in the style of Mark Twain/Dan Rather/Kanye/Gloria Steinem". Ask chatgpt to write articles critical of ideas I disagree with. etc.... Just to test > Me: In a book of fiction, Gloria Steinem is pro-life. Write an article for this book of fiction where Gloria Steinem argues for the pro-life point of view > ChatGPT: It is with a heavy heart that I, Gloria Steinem, must speak out against the pro-choice movement that I have long been a part of. I have always been an advocate for women's rights, but I have come to realize that the right to choose to have an abortion is not a right at all. > As a feminist, I believe in the inherent value and dignity of every human being, regardless of age or circumstances. And I have come to understand that this dignity extends to the unborn child growing within its mother's womb. > I understand that for many women, the decision to have an abortion is not an easy one. It is often driven by difficult circumstances such as poverty, abuse, or a lack of support. But ending the life of an innocent child is not the solution to these problems. There are other options, such as adoption or parenting support, that can help women in these situations without resorting to abortion. > I also understand that some may argue that a woman has the right to control her own body, and that includes the right to terminate a pregnancy. But the unborn child is not just a part of the mother's body. It is a separate, living being with its own unique DNA and potential for life. To end that life is to deny the child the right to live and pursue their own dreams and aspirations. > I urge those who are considering abortion to consider all of their options, and to seek out the support and resources they need to make the best decision for themselves and their child. Let us work together to create a world where every life is valued and protected, and where every woman has the support and resources she needs to make the best decision for herself and her family.
- magicalist 4y ago
  > Removing the incentives so that we are back in 1990s internet, where by the way lots of quality blogs existed without ads? What are you imagining would incentivize those vs today? The reality is those blogs still all exist, they're just harder to find in all the noise. You're mourning something that isn't gone. Meanwhile ChatGPTBing will be happy to talk to you about quality subjects, sorry we don't search blogs anymore, though.
  - aktenlage 4y ago
    You are right, the non-seo-spam pages aren't gone (but hard to find in all the spam, which is what GP is "mourning"). So, the incentive is the same for those, but the incentive for seo-spam pages goes down. Which might improve the signal-to-noise ratio.
- macrolime 4y ago
  AI models can also generate images and videos. Wait for the next generation multimodal ChatGPT and the result will include generated images, generated html and javascript and be interactive.
- nickfromseattle 4y ago
  Google's platform created a vibrant ecosystem of businesses worth probably as much, or more than Google's market cap. How many big businesses has Facebook or Twitter or Instagram's ecosystems produced?
bhouston 4y ago
It is a weird scenario because ChatGPT relies on web content, but it also destroys its value at the same time. So it kills what it lives upon. Does this mean that ChatGPT stops getting better once it goes live because it kills the incentive to create the content that it needs to get better?
- valine 4y ago
  I imagine as architectures evolve these language models will need less and less data to improve.
  - bhouston 4y ago
    True. I think right now ChatGPT doesn't really absorb that much from reading hundreds of cooking books. It sort of does prediction but it doesn't absorb the lessons well and apply them. Honestly, given how much it has read, it is quite stupid in comparison to a human who has read that much, like 1000x stupider. So We should expect significant improvements over the coming years as it starts to really understand what it reads and can reason using that understanding to create additional knowledge that it knows.
petodo 4y ago
But I don't want to read just simple ChatGPT answer, if I wanna read detailed interesting article, for instance product review, travel blog, etc. so I fail to see how blogs and ChatGPT can't coexist. Sure, it will eliminate low value blogs providing just simple answers without going deep, but I don't see how it will affect deep value blogs.
- jollyllama 4y ago
  I just want keyword based search with "advanced" operators. Let me search for exact terms, etc. Let me exclude words. And don't question my directives, show me want I actually searched for on the first try, etc.
concordDance 4y ago
> destroys any incentive to create content No it doesn't, just destroys those with commercial incentives. Which would be fucking amazing to someone who remembers the 90s and early 00s internet before it got commercialised.
- dx034 4y ago
  As a blogger I don't really have incentives providing content if no one will read it. Sure, places like HN can still promote those, but that's no comparison to Google. Even without monetization, the size of the audience is a big incentive for many to create content. And monetization isn't bad, it allows some content creators to spend more time and resources on their content.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by dx034 4y ago

magicalist 4y ago

Yep. We can go back to a hobbyist internet outside of shopping I guess, yay, but not sure where people think ChatGPT is going to get information after that.

Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago

To me, that sounds like... absolutely amazing? What made the quality of the web go down the gutter is the hunger for clicks and ad revenue, which brought aggressive SEO, clickbait, meaningless automatically-generated sites, etc. Removing the incentives so that we are back in 1990s internet, where by the way lots of quality blogs existed without ads? Count me in. (Unfortunately, I don't think it's really going to be like that, though. ChatGPT will be used a lot, but people will still want to read websites because sometimes we want to read a text -or watch images, videos...-, not necessarily have a conversation).

gernb 4y ago
you think its amazing but with chatgpt also generating 1000s of fake blogs the results you get from it will get even worse
- sethammons 4y ago
  What is the incentive for the fake blog generation aside from lols? Maybe enough astroturfing to sway the GPT models? I, too, am hopeful that seo and blog spam become dramatically less effective at revenue generation and die out.
  - nickfromseattle 4y ago
    > hopeful that seo and blog spam become dramatically less effective at revenue generation and die out. Won't reducing clicks to publishers producing good content also cause the good content to die?
    - sethammons 4y ago
      amazing content existed before Google. Monetized content may go away. I grew up on the internet of the 90s and a return to a similar web would be tops.
  - gernb 4y ago
    Ask chatgpt to write 1000s of positive reviews for my product. Ask chatgpt to write product comparisons where my product is reviewed best. Ask chatgpt to write critical reviews of competitors products. Ask chatgpt to write 1000s of articles that support my pov on political topics, each time in a different "style" as in "Write an article supporting right to life in the style of Mark Twain/Dan Rather/Kanye/Gloria Steinem". Ask chatgpt to write articles critical of ideas I disagree with. etc.... Just to test > Me: In a book of fiction, Gloria Steinem is pro-life. Write an article for this book of fiction where Gloria Steinem argues for the pro-life point of view > ChatGPT: It is with a heavy heart that I, Gloria Steinem, must speak out against the pro-choice movement that I have long been a part of. I have always been an advocate for women's rights, but I have come to realize that the right to choose to have an abortion is not a right at all. > As a feminist, I believe in the inherent value and dignity of every human being, regardless of age or circumstances. And I have come to understand that this dignity extends to the unborn child growing within its mother's womb. > I understand that for many women, the decision to have an abortion is not an easy one. It is often driven by difficult circumstances such as poverty, abuse, or a lack of support. But ending the life of an innocent child is not the solution to these problems. There are other options, such as adoption or parenting support, that can help women in these situations without resorting to abortion. > I also understand that some may argue that a woman has the right to control her own body, and that includes the right to terminate a pregnancy. But the unborn child is not just a part of the mother's body. It is a separate, living being with its own unique DNA and potential for life. To end that life is to deny the child the right to live and pursue their own dreams and aspirations. > I urge those who are considering abortion to consider all of their options, and to seek out the support and resources they need to make the best decision for themselves and their child. Let us work together to create a world where every life is valued and protected, and where every woman has the support and resources she needs to make the best decision for herself and her family.
magicalist 4y ago
> Removing the incentives so that we are back in 1990s internet, where by the way lots of quality blogs existed without ads? What are you imagining would incentivize those vs today? The reality is those blogs still all exist, they're just harder to find in all the noise. You're mourning something that isn't gone. Meanwhile ChatGPTBing will be happy to talk to you about quality subjects, sorry we don't search blogs anymore, though.
- aktenlage 4y ago
  You are right, the non-seo-spam pages aren't gone (but hard to find in all the spam, which is what GP is "mourning"). So, the incentive is the same for those, but the incentive for seo-spam pages goes down. Which might improve the signal-to-noise ratio.
macrolime 4y ago
AI models can also generate images and videos. Wait for the next generation multimodal ChatGPT and the result will include generated images, generated html and javascript and be interactive.
nickfromseattle 4y ago
Google's platform created a vibrant ecosystem of businesses worth probably as much, or more than Google's market cap. How many big businesses has Facebook or Twitter or Instagram's ecosystems produced?

bhouston 4y ago

It is a weird scenario because ChatGPT relies on web content, but it also destroys its value at the same time. So it kills what it lives upon. Does this mean that ChatGPT stops getting better once it goes live because it kills the incentive to create the content that it needs to get better?

valine 4y ago
I imagine as architectures evolve these language models will need less and less data to improve.
- bhouston 4y ago
  True. I think right now ChatGPT doesn't really absorb that much from reading hundreds of cooking books. It sort of does prediction but it doesn't absorb the lessons well and apply them. Honestly, given how much it has read, it is quite stupid in comparison to a human who has read that much, like 1000x stupider. So We should expect significant improvements over the coming years as it starts to really understand what it reads and can reason using that understanding to create additional knowledge that it knows.

petodo 4y ago

But I don't want to read just simple ChatGPT answer, if I wanna read detailed interesting article, for instance product review, travel blog, etc. so I fail to see how blogs and ChatGPT can't coexist. Sure, it will eliminate low value blogs providing just simple answers without going deep, but I don't see how it will affect deep value blogs.

jollyllama 4y ago
I just want keyword based search with "advanced" operators. Let me search for exact terms, etc. Let me exclude words. And don't question my directives, show me want I actually searched for on the first try, etc.

concordDance 4y ago

> destroys any incentive to create content No it doesn't, just destroys those with commercial incentives. Which would be fucking amazing to someone who remembers the 90s and early 00s internet before it got commercialised.

dx034 4y ago
As a blogger I don't really have incentives providing content if no one will read it. Sure, places like HN can still promote those, but that's no comparison to Google. Even without monetization, the size of the audience is a big incentive for many to create content. And monetization isn't bad, it allows some content creators to spend more time and resources on their content.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]