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> no-one else in the family wanted it This is really the key part. A business can be successful yet soul crushing or not making financial sense compared to oth

> no-one else in the family wanted it This is really the key part. A business can be successful yet soul crushing or not making financial sense compared to other jobs. In France bakeries are facing this same issue: one can support the whole community and be wildly popular while being a losing proposition for the owning family, and it’s becoming a real issue to find a better balance and people to keep the traditions alive.

tw98521358 4y ago
Yeah bakery business is soul crushing. You have to work night shift without the pay differential. Way too much competition, labor of love
caseyross 4y ago
I think this gets to the core of it. It's just not economic anymore. My sense is that most of these family shops were started during the mid-20th century when the economy in developed countries was more accommodating to small business. Through decades of ever-increasing pricing pressure from giant multinationals, the most successful family operations could still keep their doors open because of the trusted reputation they had earned in their communities. But even that lifeline is increasingly imperiled as their best, longest customers age out and die, and are not replaced by younger customers because of constantly falling wages in real terms.
- makeitdouble 4y ago
  Also to note: older generations were more used to crappy work conditions. They didn’t enjoy it, oh no, and we saw the endless battles to get rid of dangerous and body crushing jobs, all the fight for unions, workers getting shot during strikes etc. And many traditional jobs were just a step below in terms of pressure and work hours. In a way, their wish for a better future for their children mostly got realized, and a lot of traditional occupations didn’t or couldn’t adapt to that mindset. The family business in the article is a farmer in the north, and by today’s standard it’s usually a brutal job, “work life balance” is basically an imaginary concept, there’s little leeway for error (forget to turn some knob just once in the dozens of time you do it in a day, and you have a month worth of production gone away), and you’re facing enough natural and economic odds that investment is basically akin to gambling.
  - lazyasciiart 4y ago
    The family business in the article is described as a transportation company with a farm attached? I wonder if he could sell the transport business separately.
    - makeitdouble 4y ago
      I reread the article and it’s still not clear to me what he does exactly. It’s explained as a transportation company, but as the article progresses, we’re told that farmers “depend on Mr. Yokoyama for tasks like harvesting hay and clearing snow” and “17 employees tend to 3,000 head of cattle, and Mr. Yokoyama’s company fills in the gaps.” so it seems they’re doing a lot, yes. On the transportation business, it has a reputation of being cutthroat, and bigger national players like Yamato / Sagawa have had a lot of trouble recruiting despite the booming business coming from e-commerce. It’s kinda tough any angle we look at it…
- ehnto 4y ago
  Notably, Japan had previously enjoyed a very strong middle class. With age demographics and economics changing I suspect the spending capacity of the middle class as a whole might be dropping. Small business struggles when people can't afford more than the cheapest as the cheapest usually comes from the big corporates.
TulliusCicero 4y ago
Running a bakery seems awful just because of the hours to me. Couldn't pay me enough to get up so early every day.
baud147258 4y ago
I remember discussing with a friend whose father is a baker and he admited that his father was working more today than when he started a few decades ago, mostly because of the issue of finding reliable employees (including reliable enough to show up for work very early in the morning)
- JCharante 4y ago
  Surely the issue is finding reliable employees at roughly the same real cost as before. If you gave me 500k a year I'd show up on time every morning.
username_my1 4y ago
Yeah I recently walked into a very fancy European city center shop, obviously the owner took pride in what they do and the products where of high quality and the customers were there. but the price was so much higher than amazon for the same product that it didn't make sense... I asked the owner and he complained about rent. It obviously looks good from far, but if you know you're running a business at a negative to the customer fewer and fewer will show up year over year.
- TomSwirly 4y ago
  I mean, I will never give a penny to Amazon again, so I might patronize that establishment. But yes, few people think like me, and probably every neighborhood business that isn't a service or a chain restaurant will be gone in a fairly short time. The thought just horrifies me. What are all these people going to do? Adults who are making a good living, who have no skill sets other than dealing politely with humans and helping them? They aren't going to retrain for an STEM position. Their jobs are going to be replaced by nothing at all, just like we did with instrumentalists, just like we are doing with artists, just like we will do with drivers as soon as we can, which seems to be a bit slower than anticipated, but is inevitable.
  - username_my1 4y ago
    they always found a new way to live, 100 years ago 92% of the general public worked on a farm, thank god for the tractor and automation that we don't have to physically slave away for 12 hours a day 6 days a week to earn a living. optimizations in the system always lead to general improvements for everyone involved. it just might get ugly in the meantime while it's happening. and ask yourself what if the city center stops being outlets for all those things that you can find online how many different ways can that space be used that might have positive impact (more yoga studios, more art exhibitions, more workshops places, more ....).
    - dumpsterlid 4y ago
      [dead]

tw98521358 4y ago

Yeah bakery business is soul crushing. You have to work night shift without the pay differential. Way too much competition, labor of love

caseyross 4y ago

I think this gets to the core of it. It's just not economic anymore. My sense is that most of these family shops were started during the mid-20th century when the economy in developed countries was more accommodating to small business. Through decades of ever-increasing pricing pressure from giant multinationals, the most successful family operations could still keep their doors open because of the trusted reputation they had earned in their communities. But even that lifeline is increasingly imperiled as their best, longest customers age out and die, and are not replaced by younger customers because of constantly falling wages in real terms.

makeitdouble 4y ago
Also to note: older generations were more used to crappy work conditions. They didn’t enjoy it, oh no, and we saw the endless battles to get rid of dangerous and body crushing jobs, all the fight for unions, workers getting shot during strikes etc. And many traditional jobs were just a step below in terms of pressure and work hours. In a way, their wish for a better future for their children mostly got realized, and a lot of traditional occupations didn’t or couldn’t adapt to that mindset. The family business in the article is a farmer in the north, and by today’s standard it’s usually a brutal job, “work life balance” is basically an imaginary concept, there’s little leeway for error (forget to turn some knob just once in the dozens of time you do it in a day, and you have a month worth of production gone away), and you’re facing enough natural and economic odds that investment is basically akin to gambling.
- lazyasciiart 4y ago
  The family business in the article is described as a transportation company with a farm attached? I wonder if he could sell the transport business separately.
  - makeitdouble 4y ago
    I reread the article and it’s still not clear to me what he does exactly. It’s explained as a transportation company, but as the article progresses, we’re told that farmers “depend on Mr. Yokoyama for tasks like harvesting hay and clearing snow” and “17 employees tend to 3,000 head of cattle, and Mr. Yokoyama’s company fills in the gaps.” so it seems they’re doing a lot, yes. On the transportation business, it has a reputation of being cutthroat, and bigger national players like Yamato / Sagawa have had a lot of trouble recruiting despite the booming business coming from e-commerce. It’s kinda tough any angle we look at it…
ehnto 4y ago
Notably, Japan had previously enjoyed a very strong middle class. With age demographics and economics changing I suspect the spending capacity of the middle class as a whole might be dropping. Small business struggles when people can't afford more than the cheapest as the cheapest usually comes from the big corporates.

TulliusCicero 4y ago

Running a bakery seems awful just because of the hours to me. Couldn't pay me enough to get up so early every day.

baud147258 4y ago

I remember discussing with a friend whose father is a baker and he admited that his father was working more today than when he started a few decades ago, mostly because of the issue of finding reliable employees (including reliable enough to show up for work very early in the morning)

JCharante 4y ago
Surely the issue is finding reliable employees at roughly the same real cost as before. If you gave me 500k a year I'd show up on time every morning.

username_my1 4y ago

Yeah I recently walked into a very fancy European city center shop, obviously the owner took pride in what they do and the products where of high quality and the customers were there. but the price was so much higher than amazon for the same product that it didn't make sense... I asked the owner and he complained about rent. It obviously looks good from far, but if you know you're running a business at a negative to the customer fewer and fewer will show up year over year.

TomSwirly 4y ago
I mean, I will never give a penny to Amazon again, so I might patronize that establishment. But yes, few people think like me, and probably every neighborhood business that isn't a service or a chain restaurant will be gone in a fairly short time. The thought just horrifies me. What are all these people going to do? Adults who are making a good living, who have no skill sets other than dealing politely with humans and helping them? They aren't going to retrain for an STEM position. Their jobs are going to be replaced by nothing at all, just like we did with instrumentalists, just like we are doing with artists, just like we will do with drivers as soon as we can, which seems to be a bit slower than anticipated, but is inevitable.
- username_my1 4y ago
  they always found a new way to live, 100 years ago 92% of the general public worked on a farm, thank god for the tractor and automation that we don't have to physically slave away for 12 hours a day 6 days a week to earn a living. optimizations in the system always lead to general improvements for everyone involved. it just might get ugly in the meantime while it's happening. and ask yourself what if the city center stops being outlets for all those things that you can find online how many different ways can that space be used that might have positive impact (more yoga studios, more art exhibitions, more workshops places, more ....).
  - dumpsterlid 4y ago
    [dead]