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I would like to share with you some comments from a friend of mine, living in the so-called second world: (I've edited out quite a lot, mostly offensive words)

I would like to share with you some comments from a friend of mine, living in the so-called second world: (I've edited out quite a lot, mostly offensive words) I am unable to comprehend what is happening at the moment. Some argue that the neoliberal capitalist system is collapsing, others that is another way to turn public funds into private funds. I am very confused. You know that 400 americans own 1.7 trillon USD? (the GDP of Argentina is 250 Billon USD). You know that 50% of the world population has 1% of the GDP. And then they want me to believe that there is a financial crisis. There is a crisis, one that nobody mentions, people are starving and dying, and nobody gives a shit, they only care about themselves. Well I would love to believe that they are really losing money in the big casino ...

Eliezer 18y ago
Well, poor people starving as usual is all part of the plan, so no one notices. This stuff isn't in the plan.
- albertcardona 18y ago
  It's not poor people, it's people without equality of opportunities, tied by family weights, unable to become enterpreneurs even if they really want to because society around them has collapsed. Emigration is, so far, the only solution (even if painful), but despite being college-educated and very capable, the western world doesn't want them--not easy to get visas of any kind. And 50+ year old people don't feel like moving at all, because their country used to be fine and is now, very deep in, their home. One can always pretend that nothing has changed--we humans have perfected the art of self deception. Was it their fault that it collapsed? That's a slippery slope. I have no answer. But the current situation of Argentina may serve as a comparison reference to any over-hyped news of "collapse" or "martial law required to fix the economy in the USA": the USA is doing fine, thank you, as can be seen in this very forum of enterpreneurs.
  - Tichy 18y ago
    Did those people bring it about themselves: without really knowing the story of Argentina (except dictator, brutal torturing and stuff), I would wager to say YES. Probably it was another case of communism gone wild. And that is why an attitude like the one from the "second world" you quoted annoys me a bit, frankly. It annoys me if people don't even try to understand the "financial crisis" or what is causing it, and instead simply scapegoat some imagined rich people whom they blame for everything. Because that is exactly the attitude that then makes the real shit happen, communism, fascism, civil war and the likes. I am not saying that I don't feel sorry for the poor, complex systems are hard to understand, and I can not paint you a complete picture of the financial crisis, either. It is important to try to understand it to avoid making the same systems as in the past.
    - albertcardona 18y ago
      I agree with you. Yet my friends' imagined "rich people" are everyone living in a developed country. I.e. "rich people" means something entirely different to him. Some people was born after the collapse, or were children at the time. Yet the first world handles them just the same way as their perhaps accountable parents. And exactly how is their fault in any way? So from their perspective, the whole situation is just unfair, and the cries of self-pity of large financial institutions very much out of place. Also: here is an account of how life is currently in a country that used to be just fine, and now is totally broken down: http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=044387;p=1 http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ub... Search for "We understood it the same way a kid understands photosynthesis" for a description of how it feels to have the process explained of how a large middle class falls down to a low class, and when that means your own class in your own country. I found it heart-shattering.
steveplace 18y ago
A tiny white box is not the best way to go into depth into this, but a couple notes: 1. Putting neoliberalism to blame here is not exactly the case. It had its moments (allowing certain banks to double their leverage ability) but there were plenty of regulatory screwups: Reducing Fed Funds rates to 1%, Fannie, Freddie, Sarbox, and several others. 2. Where is that 1.7T that those Americans own? This isn't like Ducktales where there is a giant building full of gold. It's the capital that drives our economic system. Of course some of them don't know how to allocate those resources, but its out there. 3. It's terrible the amount of human suffering to the scale that we have is tolerable today. But it's my belief that other economic systems will not do any better. Credit and liquidity affects everyone, including charities. These discussions are better left to an hourlong discussion over several pints, but those are my thoughts.

Eliezer 18y ago

Well, poor people starving as usual is all part of the plan, so no one notices. This stuff isn't in the plan.

albertcardona 18y ago
It's not poor people, it's people without equality of opportunities, tied by family weights, unable to become enterpreneurs even if they really want to because society around them has collapsed. Emigration is, so far, the only solution (even if painful), but despite being college-educated and very capable, the western world doesn't want them--not easy to get visas of any kind. And 50+ year old people don't feel like moving at all, because their country used to be fine and is now, very deep in, their home. One can always pretend that nothing has changed--we humans have perfected the art of self deception. Was it their fault that it collapsed? That's a slippery slope. I have no answer. But the current situation of Argentina may serve as a comparison reference to any over-hyped news of "collapse" or "martial law required to fix the economy in the USA": the USA is doing fine, thank you, as can be seen in this very forum of enterpreneurs.
- Tichy 18y ago
  Did those people bring it about themselves: without really knowing the story of Argentina (except dictator, brutal torturing and stuff), I would wager to say YES. Probably it was another case of communism gone wild. And that is why an attitude like the one from the "second world" you quoted annoys me a bit, frankly. It annoys me if people don't even try to understand the "financial crisis" or what is causing it, and instead simply scapegoat some imagined rich people whom they blame for everything. Because that is exactly the attitude that then makes the real shit happen, communism, fascism, civil war and the likes. I am not saying that I don't feel sorry for the poor, complex systems are hard to understand, and I can not paint you a complete picture of the financial crisis, either. It is important to try to understand it to avoid making the same systems as in the past.
  - albertcardona 18y ago
    I agree with you. Yet my friends' imagined "rich people" are everyone living in a developed country. I.e. "rich people" means something entirely different to him. Some people was born after the collapse, or were children at the time. Yet the first world handles them just the same way as their perhaps accountable parents. And exactly how is their fault in any way? So from their perspective, the whole situation is just unfair, and the cries of self-pity of large financial institutions very much out of place. Also: here is an account of how life is currently in a country that used to be just fine, and now is totally broken down: http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=044387;p=1 http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ub... Search for "We understood it the same way a kid understands photosynthesis" for a description of how it feels to have the process explained of how a large middle class falls down to a low class, and when that means your own class in your own country. I found it heart-shattering.

steveplace 18y ago

A tiny white box is not the best way to go into depth into this, but a couple notes: 1. Putting neoliberalism to blame here is not exactly the case. It had its moments (allowing certain banks to double their leverage ability) but there were plenty of regulatory screwups: Reducing Fed Funds rates to 1%, Fannie, Freddie, Sarbox, and several others. 2. Where is that 1.7T that those Americans own? This isn't like Ducktales where there is a giant building full of gold. It's the capital that drives our economic system. Of course some of them don't know how to allocate those resources, but its out there. 3. It's terrible the amount of human suffering to the scale that we have is tolerable today. But it's my belief that other economic systems will not do any better. Credit and liquidity affects everyone, including charities. These discussions are better left to an hourlong discussion over several pints, but those are my thoughts.