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You're still allowed to fight and go to war... just don't force ME to die for some lines on paper. Yes, I'll gladly take whatever I have and leave instead of dy

You're still allowed to fight and go to war... just don't force ME to die for some lines on paper. Yes, I'll gladly take whatever I have and leave instead of dying in a pointless war. Or stay under a new country. And you're free to die for your country if you want.

pixl97 4y ago
It doesn't matter if you're willing to fight and die for some lines on paper, what matters is people are willing to come kill you for possession of those lines.
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  Most people including armies don't want to kill you, a civillian. Even more so if you move away for the time of the war and then come back after it's over. The problem is, that your own government won't let you leave, will make you fight (and probably die) and imprison you if you desert.
  - lazide 4y ago
    If you were in Mariupol, or Bakhmut, or Dresden, or Hiroshima, or Stalingrad, it sure didn't matter if you were a civilian or not. And hell, all of Eastern Europe during WW2, it barely mattered. When it did, that might mean 'just' getting shot and pushed into a ditch instead of shot and left on the battlefield. And the reason that societies don't just let folks leave is because the whole is stronger than the parts - and they don’t want you or some other part bailing and getting them all killed. Though sometimes, even that isn’t enough. In the best case, it's the collective good trying to protect itself. In the worst case, it's the controlling parent dragging you down with them. While certainly a survival strategy for an individual to desert, it has heavy costs - and don't expect any friends in those who are left behind.
    - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
      > If you were in Mariupol, or Bakhmut, or Dresden, or Hiroshima, or Stalingrad, it sure didn't matter if you were a civilian or not. And hell, all of Eastern Europe during WW2, it barely mattered. When it did, that might mean 'just' getting shot and pushed into a ditch instead of shot and left on the battlefield. Yes, I know, that's why I'd pack and leave... I don't want to live in "a society" that expects me to die for it. > And the reason that societies don't just let folks leave is because the whole is stronger than the parts - and they don’t want you or some other part bailing and getting them all killed. So, they want to use me as a human shield? Sure, another reason to leave. > While certainly a survival strategy for an individual to desert, it has heavy costs - and don't expect any friends in those who are left behind. Who cares, they'll be dead anyway and i'll be alive somewhere far away and safe.
      - pixl97 4y ago
        You state a case for the tragedy of the commons. If everyone was like you there would be no society and nowhere safe. Effectively you behave like the billionaires of the world today. They have enough money to run away from whatever problems they create and therefore care little about preventing them in the first place. You have no skin in the game.
        ajsnigrutin 4y ago
        So I should die because those billionaires are in a dick measuring contest? The war in ukraine is a proxy war between nato and direct for russia. Some random Vlad and Boris have had nothing to do with it, didn't start it but now have to die, so that elenski, ursula, macron and biden on one side and putin, xi, whoever the iranian leader is on the other side measure their dicks. Sorry, but not sorry, fuck them. If they want to start wars.. sure, but if more people were like me and not like you (who I guess is also not in a battlefield but being a smartass behind a keyboard), the battlefields would be empty, and the only way for a battle to be won would be with putin riding a bear, biden in an old peugeot and biden eating icecream. You are free to die for whatever you deem necessary... I don't need to die for politics and want a way out, even if that means leaving everything behind and going away.

pixl97 4y ago

It doesn't matter if you're willing to fight and die for some lines on paper, what matters is people are willing to come kill you for possession of those lines.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago
Most people including armies don't want to kill you, a civillian. Even more so if you move away for the time of the war and then come back after it's over. The problem is, that your own government won't let you leave, will make you fight (and probably die) and imprison you if you desert.
- lazide 4y ago
  If you were in Mariupol, or Bakhmut, or Dresden, or Hiroshima, or Stalingrad, it sure didn't matter if you were a civilian or not. And hell, all of Eastern Europe during WW2, it barely mattered. When it did, that might mean 'just' getting shot and pushed into a ditch instead of shot and left on the battlefield. And the reason that societies don't just let folks leave is because the whole is stronger than the parts - and they don’t want you or some other part bailing and getting them all killed. Though sometimes, even that isn’t enough. In the best case, it's the collective good trying to protect itself. In the worst case, it's the controlling parent dragging you down with them. While certainly a survival strategy for an individual to desert, it has heavy costs - and don't expect any friends in those who are left behind.
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    > If you were in Mariupol, or Bakhmut, or Dresden, or Hiroshima, or Stalingrad, it sure didn't matter if you were a civilian or not. And hell, all of Eastern Europe during WW2, it barely mattered. When it did, that might mean 'just' getting shot and pushed into a ditch instead of shot and left on the battlefield. Yes, I know, that's why I'd pack and leave... I don't want to live in "a society" that expects me to die for it. > And the reason that societies don't just let folks leave is because the whole is stronger than the parts - and they don’t want you or some other part bailing and getting them all killed. So, they want to use me as a human shield? Sure, another reason to leave. > While certainly a survival strategy for an individual to desert, it has heavy costs - and don't expect any friends in those who are left behind. Who cares, they'll be dead anyway and i'll be alive somewhere far away and safe.
    - pixl97 4y ago
      You state a case for the tragedy of the commons. If everyone was like you there would be no society and nowhere safe. Effectively you behave like the billionaires of the world today. They have enough money to run away from whatever problems they create and therefore care little about preventing them in the first place. You have no skin in the game.
      - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
        So I should die because those billionaires are in a dick measuring contest? The war in ukraine is a proxy war between nato and direct for russia. Some random Vlad and Boris have had nothing to do with it, didn't start it but now have to die, so that elenski, ursula, macron and biden on one side and putin, xi, whoever the iranian leader is on the other side measure their dicks. Sorry, but not sorry, fuck them. If they want to start wars.. sure, but if more people were like me and not like you (who I guess is also not in a battlefield but being a smartass behind a keyboard), the battlefields would be empty, and the only way for a battle to be won would be with putin riding a bear, biden in an old peugeot and biden eating icecream. You are free to die for whatever you deem necessary... I don't need to die for politics and want a way out, even if that means leaving everything behind and going away.