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> Is that a bad thing? I've been to Japan. Hilarious. > It's a lovely place to visit but I cannot understand why the HN crowd idolizes it when there's a lot o

> Is that a bad thing? I've been to Japan. Hilarious. > It's a lovely place to visit but I cannot understand why the HN crowd idolizes it when there's a lot of places in SE Asia that have less toxic attitudes about immigrants and women. We must all share your values or perish? Anything short of them is unfathomable to you? And you have a deep understanding of 130m people because you've stepped foot in the country? My friend, it is you who are the toxic bigot.

greggarious 4y ago
I don't think they should perish? It's a lovely place, with a lot of things to teach Americans , but they're going to have issues if they won't let foreigners get some kind of working visa to care for their aging population... I'm bad with tone, but I stand by the core of that argument.
- recuter 4y ago
  You don't have an argument. You have a religion. The Japanese are heretics and the Swedes are pious. And yourself a self anointed cardinal. Famously, they rejected similar sort of persons in the 16th century and closed all entry to foreigners. Let me assure you they'll successfully sort out their issues without your input.
  - greggarious 4y ago
    >You don't have an argument. You have a religion. The Japanese are heretics and the Swedes are pious. And yourself a self anointed cardinal I’m not Swedish and despite being a former altar server haven’t been to a Catholic mass in years.
    - recuter 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan–Portugal_relations#16th_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan–Portugal_relations#16th_...
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
unity1001 4y ago
> We must all share your values or perish? Japan is perishing because of the values it currently has. Pseudo-feudal society that imitates the samurai-ruled commoners who must sacrifice their lives for one zaibatsu or the other, never-ending work in which they must karoshi themselves out for the 'ganbare' principle, extreme xenophobia that even afflicts Japanese that move from one region to another, leave aside immigrants. You definitely don't have to share his values. His values may not even be suitable for you. But you definitely must stop having the current values that you have since they are literally eradicating your society in an a case that has not been ever seen in modern age before.
- lmm 4y ago
  Japan is doing better than most developed societies. Countries that allow more immigration may paper over their population decline, but the resulting social problems mean the cure is worse than the disease.
  - unity1001 4y ago
    > Japan is doing better than most developed societies As far as I know no country including the depopulating Western European countries face the demographic crisis that Japan faces. Its a crisis at a totally different level.
    - lmm 4y ago
      Nah. If you subtract out the effects of immigration the likes of e.g. France are doing worse, and even if you don't believe that, South Korea is doing worse than Japan even in raw numbers.
      - rippercushions 4y ago
        Japan is, however, unique simply in being at least 10 years ahead on the demographic curve compared to any other aging country, so they're a crystal ball of where we're all going. Also, it's not meaningful to say "France is doing worse except for the immigrants", because the immigrants are there for good and they're having children, taking jobs, paying taxes, etc, which changes the equation for everybody else as well.
watwut 4y ago
[flagged]
- recuter 4y ago
  Of course if I don't immediately concur with these very poorly made points I must be a racist and a sexist too, right? Or some weeb lover of anime and cyberpunk as also mentioned. Sorry to disappoint. I am not at all opposed to such discussions when done in good faith by knowledgeable people. I am allergic to the phony critics who transparently play those cards to appoint themselves judge and jury. The baseless smug supriority is simply infuriating. As I pointed out in another comment it is akin to some fundy jihadi slagging off western countries for being godless sodomite infidels and hanging all of their societal challenges on not conforming to their particular world view on how the country should run. That is an altogether different thing from somebody with deep knowledge of the place ("I've been there" doesn't cut it) simply sharing their perspective as a nonvoter on its flaws. Who are you to tell people in other countries what they should or shouldn't do? You just know what is best for them eh?
  - smcl 4y ago
    No, but if you fly off the handle like this at a very mild comment then you may want to consider taking a step away from the computer and calming down. As someone is just scrolling the comments yours in this thread stick out as pretty unhinged.
    - recuter 4y ago
      Perfectly calm thank you for your genuine concern. I don't think it is a mild comment at all and it is simply disappointing to see these things normalized on HN. Smacks of the pulpit.
  - watwut 4y ago
    Very genuinely, you seem to be opposed to mere mention of either. There was no good faith in your responses either. You accused people of positions they did not took. The jihady sodomite part sounds mostly like stream of insults. It is not even that you would claim racism or sexism in Japan does not exists. Or that you would claim them to be good things. You just demand that people don't talk about them.

greggarious 4y ago

I don't think they should perish? It's a lovely place, with a lot of things to teach Americans , but they're going to have issues if they won't let foreigners get some kind of working visa to care for their aging population... I'm bad with tone, but I stand by the core of that argument.

recuter 4y ago
You don't have an argument. You have a religion. The Japanese are heretics and the Swedes are pious. And yourself a self anointed cardinal. Famously, they rejected similar sort of persons in the 16th century and closed all entry to foreigners. Let me assure you they'll successfully sort out their issues without your input.
- greggarious 4y ago
  >You don't have an argument. You have a religion. The Japanese are heretics and the Swedes are pious. And yourself a self anointed cardinal I’m not Swedish and despite being a former altar server haven’t been to a Catholic mass in years.
  - recuter 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan–Portugal_relations#16th_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan–Portugal_relations#16th_...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

unity1001 4y ago

> We must all share your values or perish? Japan is perishing because of the values it currently has. Pseudo-feudal society that imitates the samurai-ruled commoners who must sacrifice their lives for one zaibatsu or the other, never-ending work in which they must karoshi themselves out for the 'ganbare' principle, extreme xenophobia that even afflicts Japanese that move from one region to another, leave aside immigrants. You definitely don't have to share his values. His values may not even be suitable for you. But you definitely must stop having the current values that you have since they are literally eradicating your society in an a case that has not been ever seen in modern age before.

lmm 4y ago
Japan is doing better than most developed societies. Countries that allow more immigration may paper over their population decline, but the resulting social problems mean the cure is worse than the disease.
- unity1001 4y ago
  > Japan is doing better than most developed societies As far as I know no country including the depopulating Western European countries face the demographic crisis that Japan faces. Its a crisis at a totally different level.
  - lmm 4y ago
    Nah. If you subtract out the effects of immigration the likes of e.g. France are doing worse, and even if you don't believe that, South Korea is doing worse than Japan even in raw numbers.
    - rippercushions 4y ago
      Japan is, however, unique simply in being at least 10 years ahead on the demographic curve compared to any other aging country, so they're a crystal ball of where we're all going. Also, it's not meaningful to say "France is doing worse except for the immigrants", because the immigrants are there for good and they're having children, taking jobs, paying taxes, etc, which changes the equation for everybody else as well.

watwut 4y ago

[flagged]

recuter 4y ago
Of course if I don't immediately concur with these very poorly made points I must be a racist and a sexist too, right? Or some weeb lover of anime and cyberpunk as also mentioned. Sorry to disappoint. I am not at all opposed to such discussions when done in good faith by knowledgeable people. I am allergic to the phony critics who transparently play those cards to appoint themselves judge and jury. The baseless smug supriority is simply infuriating. As I pointed out in another comment it is akin to some fundy jihadi slagging off western countries for being godless sodomite infidels and hanging all of their societal challenges on not conforming to their particular world view on how the country should run. That is an altogether different thing from somebody with deep knowledge of the place ("I've been there" doesn't cut it) simply sharing their perspective as a nonvoter on its flaws. Who are you to tell people in other countries what they should or shouldn't do? You just know what is best for them eh?
- smcl 4y ago
  No, but if you fly off the handle like this at a very mild comment then you may want to consider taking a step away from the computer and calming down. As someone is just scrolling the comments yours in this thread stick out as pretty unhinged.
  - recuter 4y ago
    Perfectly calm thank you for your genuine concern. I don't think it is a mild comment at all and it is simply disappointing to see these things normalized on HN. Smacks of the pulpit.
- watwut 4y ago
  Very genuinely, you seem to be opposed to mere mention of either. There was no good faith in your responses either. You accused people of positions they did not took. The jihady sodomite part sounds mostly like stream of insults. It is not even that you would claim racism or sexism in Japan does not exists. Or that you would claim them to be good things. You just demand that people don't talk about them.