5 ms·

Real men do change their own tires. As it should be. That's not unhealthy machismo, it's the healthy kind.

by pnf 4y ago

UncleOxidant 4y ago
Some men change their own tires. Some men call AAA when they get a flat. Some women change their own tires. Some women call AAA when they get a flat. All of these people are real.
- pnf 4y ago
  Yes, they are all real people but masculinity means changing your own tires unless old or otherwise enfeebled. Otherwise being a man or a woman means nothing but chromosome delivery mechanisms.
  - UncleOxidant 4y ago
    > but masculinity means changing your own tires Does it? Does it also mean not cooking & cleaning? Never crying? Watching sports? Not changing diapers? Never eating quiche?
    - pnf 4y ago
      I've seen plenty of male chefs so not sure what you're getting at. It's not about not doing something, it's about doing something when you can. No man should shy away from changing a diaper or cleaning. What are you even talking about?
      - majkinetor 4y ago
        Sounds about right, but when you reverse that, why wouldn't woman do something that she can? Judging from experience, mostly man do that.
  - mint2 4y ago
    Want the brain surgeon operating on your loved one with his hands later in the day to change his own tire in the snow on the way to the hospital or do you want him to call aaa? Btw the lug nuts are stuck and will need substantial persuading. And it’s on the side of a busy road. Seems extreme to think that guy should change his own tire.
    - pnf 4y ago
      If he's a surgeon or a pianist he gets a pass. The exceptions that prove the rule.
      - mint2 4y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_ru... “ In what Fowler describes as the "most objectionable" variation of the phrase,[1] this sort of use comes closest to meaning "there is an exception to every rule", or even that the presence of an exception makes a rule more true; these uses Fowler attributes to misunderstanding.[1]”
        pnf 4y ago
        I enjoy such etymologies as much as anyone but not sure I agree with you or Fowler's on this one. I mean, if you want to police grammar around HN, fine, but you're going to wear out the tips of your fingers. But aside from that there is also a kind of linguistic luddism in refusing the accept popular usage of idioms. Imagine demanding the same scrupulosity of someone learning English. They would be deprived of such lovelies as "begging the question" without being handed a dog-eared copy of Sophistical Refutations. Or how about "the proof is in the pudding"? No "alright" for you. You must promptly declare yourself when leaving a voicemail for your spouse: "Hello, it is I." So much lost, so little gained. "The exception that proves the rule" is a saying whose meaning is contested." I don't find the objection here very credible. The usage you object to is "unfortunately the commonest". The common usage has the advantage of being the most obvious. The valences offered in the article don't seem that significant when it all boils down to what people mean by it, which is pretty well-understood. De gustibus...
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > masculinity means changing your own tires No, it doesn’t.
  - mint2 4y ago
    According to 90s canned food commercials, being masculine meant eating copious amounts of food that looked like dog food. Masculinity means not being so insecure enough to need broad arbitrary rules to proscribe what being masculine means. A real man may wear a pink flower shirt or he may not. A real man would not care. Same with changing a tire. Sure It’s a useful skill, but it’s totally unrelated to masculinity.
    - pnf 4y ago
      It meant having a good appetite and not fussing about your food. What's the problem with that? It seems like you don't get what it means to change your own tire. Try it sometime. It's not about caring about what other people think. It's about having some self-respect and doing for yourself when you can. It should be embarrassing to call another man to do for you what you can reasonably do for yourself.

Real men do change their own tires. As it should be. That's not unhealthy machismo, it's the healthy kind.

by pnf 4y ago

Real men do change their own tires. As it should be. That's not unhealthy machismo, it's the healthy kind.

Some men change their own tires. Some men call AAA when they get a flat. Some women change their own tires. Some women call AAA when they get a flat. All of these people are real.

pnf 4y ago
Yes, they are all real people but masculinity means changing your own tires unless old or otherwise enfeebled. Otherwise being a man or a woman means nothing but chromosome delivery mechanisms.
- UncleOxidant 4y ago
  > but masculinity means changing your own tires Does it? Does it also mean not cooking & cleaning? Never crying? Watching sports? Not changing diapers? Never eating quiche?
  - pnf 4y ago
    I've seen plenty of male chefs so not sure what you're getting at. It's not about not doing something, it's about doing something when you can. No man should shy away from changing a diaper or cleaning. What are you even talking about?
    - majkinetor 4y ago
      Sounds about right, but when you reverse that, why wouldn't woman do something that she can? Judging from experience, mostly man do that.
- mint2 4y ago
  Want the brain surgeon operating on your loved one with his hands later in the day to change his own tire in the snow on the way to the hospital or do you want him to call aaa? Btw the lug nuts are stuck and will need substantial persuading. And it’s on the side of a busy road. Seems extreme to think that guy should change his own tire.
  - pnf 4y ago
    If he's a surgeon or a pianist he gets a pass. The exceptions that prove the rule.
    - mint2 4y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_ru... “ In what Fowler describes as the "most objectionable" variation of the phrase,[1] this sort of use comes closest to meaning "there is an exception to every rule", or even that the presence of an exception makes a rule more true; these uses Fowler attributes to misunderstanding.[1]”
      - pnf 4y ago
        I enjoy such etymologies as much as anyone but not sure I agree with you or Fowler's on this one. I mean, if you want to police grammar around HN, fine, but you're going to wear out the tips of your fingers. But aside from that there is also a kind of linguistic luddism in refusing the accept popular usage of idioms. Imagine demanding the same scrupulosity of someone learning English. They would be deprived of such lovelies as "begging the question" without being handed a dog-eared copy of Sophistical Refutations. Or how about "the proof is in the pudding"? No "alright" for you. You must promptly declare yourself when leaving a voicemail for your spouse: "Hello, it is I." So much lost, so little gained. "The exception that proves the rule" is a saying whose meaning is contested." I don't find the objection here very credible. The usage you object to is "unfortunately the commonest". The common usage has the advantage of being the most obvious. The valences offered in the article don't seem that significant when it all boils down to what people mean by it, which is pretty well-understood. De gustibus...
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > masculinity means changing your own tires No, it doesn’t.
- mint2 4y ago
  According to 90s canned food commercials, being masculine meant eating copious amounts of food that looked like dog food. Masculinity means not being so insecure enough to need broad arbitrary rules to proscribe what being masculine means. A real man may wear a pink flower shirt or he may not. A real man would not care. Same with changing a tire. Sure It’s a useful skill, but it’s totally unrelated to masculinity.
  - pnf 4y ago
    It meant having a good appetite and not fussing about your food. What's the problem with that? It seems like you don't get what it means to change your own tire. Try it sometime. It's not about caring about what other people think. It's about having some self-respect and doing for yourself when you can. It should be embarrassing to call another man to do for you what you can reasonably do for yourself.