7 ms·

Social media is not email, not a platform for forming communities, so I will ignore all those questions. You should think of social media- forums for example.

Social media is not email, not a platform for forming communities, so I will ignore all those questions. You should think of social media- forums for example. I expect my forum moderators to read my posts, ban people as needed, and to generally curate a community. Your final argument is that blocking bad actors is ineffective- they could just move. Well, if a bad actor did move- I would report them to the instance admin. If their admin was not interested in dealing with them, I would consult my admin and discuss blocking that instance. My experience with defederation is that in the real world, on the real network, that it is incredibly effective. I do NOT see bad actors on my instance.

romwell 4y ago
>Social media is not email, not a platform for forming communities, so I will ignore all those questions. That's a non-sequitur, and a rather ignorant one at that.
- witheld 4y ago
  The federation is not like email(besides in the technical details). It is like a forum, it is software for mostly public/semi private posts. The email equivalent would be a mailing list, and mailing lists have moderation. I joined my Mastodon instance, just as I would join a mailing list, for the community and moderation. When I ran my own instance, I associated with instances with similar policies. Now, I gave you a real response, and I would appreciate a response from you that is more than yelling out a logical fallacy like a grade schooler.
  - romwell 4y ago
    >The federation is not like email(besides in the technical details). We are on Hacker News. You can't in good faith ignore the technical details. Especially when they directly affect the functioning of the entire system, and "run your own instance" is every other "objection" to my criticism. >The email equivalent would be a mailing list, and mailing lists have moderation. >I joined my Mastodon instance, just as I would join a mailing list, for the community and moderation Great! Except this is not how Mastodon is pitched as: a Twitter alternative, a federated social network, where an account represents a person. What you describe is a good, old webforum (or, indeed, a mail list), with admins who can kick you off of one, end of story.... with the caveat that should a post on a mail list anger a moderator, they can nuke your entire email account. Mastodon instance accounts, as you said, are akin to forum accounts. It's phpBB with benefits. Which is fine, but that falls very short of the promise of a federated Twitter. >I would appreciate a response from you that is more than yelling out a logical fallacy like a grade schooler. You are welcome to point out the fallacy instead of yelling like a grade schooler. Please cite specific passages in either of my comment that you find fallacious, what you think is instead true, and we can go from there. "I will ignore your questions, and call you names because I like Mastodon and this feels critical" isn't a logical argument.
    - witheld 4y ago
      You are making your own assumptions about what Mastodon is and you’re mad that you’re wrong. “Federated twitter” does not imply any of the things you think it does. Twitter has moderation. Federated twitter has moderation. Twitter is a platform focused on communities. Federated twitter is even more focused on communities. Twitter is run by faceless nobodies and Elon Musk. Mastodon is run by Eugen if you join his instance, or your friends if you join their instance. In NO WAY does federation imply 1) That it’s like email 2) Less moderation 3) Privacy 4) No politics 5) Any of the other weird shit you assumed The only single thing federation implies is that the servers are run by independent operators.
      - romwell 4y ago
        >Twitter is run by faceless nobodies and Elon Musk. Mastodon is run by Eugen if you join his instance, or your friends if you join their instance. Yes, and if Elon Musk and faceless nobodies change the content policy that affects which accounts get banned, it's international news. If Eugen kicks you off his server without notice because you mentioned your Twitter account, nobody cares. Unless you pre-emptively prepare for being banned, you're SOL, and all your data is gone. [1] A Federated Twitter would allow the user to get their data and migrate to another instance after being banned from the one they signed up with. Being tied to your particular fiefdom (pardon me, instance) for life (of the account) is a feudal model. >In NO WAY does federation imply... that it’s like email The way Mastodon implements "federation" does. It's exactly like email in the aspect of joining servers, and depending on that server for having access to the service. Including compliance with whatever rules that server sets. It's exactly like email in that if your email server admin decides they don't like @gmail.com accounts, you won't be able to send or receive messages from that domain, regardless of how you feel about that[2]. >Any of the other weird shit you assumed See [1] and [2]. [1]https://www.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/comments/zusr5l/what_happens_with_your_account_if_server/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/comments/zusr5l/what_happe... [2] https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/8911 https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/8911

romwell 4y ago

>Social media is not email, not a platform for forming communities, so I will ignore all those questions. That's a non-sequitur, and a rather ignorant one at that.

witheld 4y ago
The federation is not like email(besides in the technical details). It is like a forum, it is software for mostly public/semi private posts. The email equivalent would be a mailing list, and mailing lists have moderation. I joined my Mastodon instance, just as I would join a mailing list, for the community and moderation. When I ran my own instance, I associated with instances with similar policies. Now, I gave you a real response, and I would appreciate a response from you that is more than yelling out a logical fallacy like a grade schooler.
- romwell 4y ago
  >The federation is not like email(besides in the technical details). We are on Hacker News. You can't in good faith ignore the technical details. Especially when they directly affect the functioning of the entire system, and "run your own instance" is every other "objection" to my criticism. >The email equivalent would be a mailing list, and mailing lists have moderation. >I joined my Mastodon instance, just as I would join a mailing list, for the community and moderation Great! Except this is not how Mastodon is pitched as: a Twitter alternative, a federated social network, where an account represents a person. What you describe is a good, old webforum (or, indeed, a mail list), with admins who can kick you off of one, end of story.... with the caveat that should a post on a mail list anger a moderator, they can nuke your entire email account. Mastodon instance accounts, as you said, are akin to forum accounts. It's phpBB with benefits. Which is fine, but that falls very short of the promise of a federated Twitter. >I would appreciate a response from you that is more than yelling out a logical fallacy like a grade schooler. You are welcome to point out the fallacy instead of yelling like a grade schooler. Please cite specific passages in either of my comment that you find fallacious, what you think is instead true, and we can go from there. "I will ignore your questions, and call you names because I like Mastodon and this feels critical" isn't a logical argument.
  - witheld 4y ago
    You are making your own assumptions about what Mastodon is and you’re mad that you’re wrong. “Federated twitter” does not imply any of the things you think it does. Twitter has moderation. Federated twitter has moderation. Twitter is a platform focused on communities. Federated twitter is even more focused on communities. Twitter is run by faceless nobodies and Elon Musk. Mastodon is run by Eugen if you join his instance, or your friends if you join their instance. In NO WAY does federation imply 1) That it’s like email 2) Less moderation 3) Privacy 4) No politics 5) Any of the other weird shit you assumed The only single thing federation implies is that the servers are run by independent operators.
    - romwell 4y ago
      >Twitter is run by faceless nobodies and Elon Musk. Mastodon is run by Eugen if you join his instance, or your friends if you join their instance. Yes, and if Elon Musk and faceless nobodies change the content policy that affects which accounts get banned, it's international news. If Eugen kicks you off his server without notice because you mentioned your Twitter account, nobody cares. Unless you pre-emptively prepare for being banned, you're SOL, and all your data is gone. [1] A Federated Twitter would allow the user to get their data and migrate to another instance after being banned from the one they signed up with. Being tied to your particular fiefdom (pardon me, instance) for life (of the account) is a feudal model. >In NO WAY does federation imply... that it’s like email The way Mastodon implements "federation" does. It's exactly like email in the aspect of joining servers, and depending on that server for having access to the service. Including compliance with whatever rules that server sets. It's exactly like email in that if your email server admin decides they don't like @gmail.com accounts, you won't be able to send or receive messages from that domain, regardless of how you feel about that[2]. >Any of the other weird shit you assumed See [1] and [2]. [1]https://www.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/comments/zusr5l/what_happens_with_your_account_if_server/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/comments/zusr5l/what_happe... [2] https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/8911 https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/8911